Submission: Intensity

I suggested this on the Potence Vote thread as a compromise / blend of what you wanted to see plus what Ratadin / Self Biased suggested.

Negotiations
Reaction
Only usable during a referendum or immediately after resolution of a political action.
Cancel the effects of an action modifier card as it is played.
Lock this reacting minion and enter combat with the acting minion. If the acting minion leaves the ready region as the result of combat and a referendum was taking place, it fails. (Otherwise, the referendum and/or resolution continues as normal.)

Timo suggested that the version have a "requires an unlocked minion" clause, or a "only one Negotiations can be played at the superior per turn" clause. What do you think?

LivesByProxy wrote:

I suggested this on the Potence Vote thread as a compromise / blend of what you wanted to see plus what Ratadin / Self Biased suggested.

Negotiations
Reaction
Only usable during a referendum or immediately after resolution of a political action.
Cancel the effects of an action modifier card as it is played.
Lock this reacting minion and enter combat with the acting minion. If the acting minion leaves the ready region as the result of combat and a referendum was taking place, it fails. (Otherwise, the referendum and/or resolution continues as normal.)

Timo suggested that the version have a "requires an unlocked minion" clause, or a "only one Negotiations can be played at the superior per turn" clause. What do you think?

So I posted in the other thread. What I am thinking is changing this to be strictly an anti bleed card. I really like the idea of having on a vampire as a pseudo intercept for bleed specifically. Blood brothers and Samedi both in particular need a card like this.

jblacey wrote:

LivesByProxy wrote:

I suggested this on the Potence Vote thread as a compromise / blend of what you wanted to see plus what Ratadin / Self Biased suggested.

Negotiations
Reaction
Only usable during a referendum or immediately after resolution of a political action.
Cancel the effects of an action modifier card as it is played.
Lock this reacting minion and enter combat with the acting minion. If the acting minion leaves the ready region as the result of combat and a referendum was taking place, it fails. (Otherwise, the referendum and/or resolution continues as normal.)

Timo suggested that the version have a "requires an unlocked minion" clause, or a "only one Negotiations can be played at the superior per turn" clause. What do you think?

So I posted in the other thread. What I am thinking is changing this to be strictly an anti bleed card. I really like the idea of having on a vampire as a pseudo intercept for bleed specifically. Blood brothers and Samedi both in particular need a card like this.

Then again, I'm feeling that Potence and "show of force" types of effects would make much more sense in referendums. Bleed can be anything from stealthy bank transactions to whatever. A referendum is always a public place where vampires gather. It would make sense that this sort of a card would be usable exactly in such a gathering.

Kraus wrote:

Then again, I'm feeling that Potence and "show of force" types of effects would make much more sense in referendums. Bleed can be anything from stealthy bank transactions to whatever. A referendum is always a public place where vampires gather. It would make sense that this sort of a card would be usable exactly in such a gathering.

I don't want to get the two threads confused.

1) Potence being effective in referendums is fine and has a good chance to bolster political/combat decks. It also means that vampires that have access to potence but not presence are not immediately at a disadvantage being unable to respond to vote push from other presence decks.

2) This still doesn't deal with the other issue that potence decks are largely incapable of surviving against large bleeds. Strategically, this means that potence decks always have to be aggressive and active first against bleed decks to remove the threat. Where as bleed decks have multiple passive defenses that let them respond to threats without exposing their hand. In practice, this means if a bleeding predator gets on the table first against combat prey, the combat deck is at a significant disadvantage. This is compounded if the bleed deck is a weenie deck as they will also have action advantage in this scenario. The idea being a bleeding predator is more cautious of passive defenses than they are of active defenses. Plus, there is no equivalent retaliation if a combat deck is defeated in a single turn. So it is completely valid strategy for a bleeding predator to hold back their bleed, feign weakness. Hold the deathblow in their hand for an opportunity knowing that a potence rush deck has virtually no passive defense.

Now, the best current solution to this scenario is to run weenie combat to guarantee that you get on the table first and that if you lose a vampire so that you reduce risk. This also shortens the window that your predator can exploit. That said, the best weenie combat decks don't run potence. Yes, Tupdogs are a thing, but that is very specific deck and the lack of crypt permanency is a significant limiting factor. Instead, allies, animalism, weenie auspex, or even disciplineless combat are all superior to potence midrange decks.

So the question I am asking with this card, can we make a passive bleed defense card for potence? Something thematically appropriate and possibly inferior version of another card? My personal opinion is that it should enable a combat strategy for synergy with existing potence cards.

Why not make action modifier/reaction combo card that lets you enter combat with someone who want to cast votes, but if the vampire is still ready you lose votes (if used by titled vampires) or blood or pool (if you are torped) ? Would help Nosferatu/Lasombra political decks a lot.

Lech wrote:

Why not make action modifier/reaction combo card that lets you enter combat with someone who want to cast votes, but if the vampire is still ready you lose votes (if used by titled vampires) or blood or pool (if you are torped) ? Would help Nosferatu/Lasombra political decks a lot.

I would think this would be a different card. In fact, I support a decision to create that card. What I have in mind for this card is a counter card using potence that allows them a relatory combat. The ultimate goal is to create an effect similar to unlocked DOM where commiting to a bleed action is risky but instead of bounce the threat is combat. Sounds similar to blocking, my plan was differential the effect so that it wasn't clearly better or worse than blocking. I think there is space for this card, especially if it flips the dynamic so the action still has opportunity to succeed.