Submission: The Edge of Disaster

So in Magic, milling is dealt with by a few things. The first is cards that are silver-bullets specifically against milling strategies. The second is cards that are anti-mill as a by-product to the cards actual usefulness. Third, and most importantly, is that recursion is much more prevalent in Magic than in Vampire. In Vampire, there are Ashur Tablets, Waste Management Operation, and then what? A couple of Necromancy cards that let you grab cards from the Ash Heap? In Magic, there are hundreds of cards (dozens and dozens of really good cards) that, if they end up in your discard pile, may as well be in your hand. In Magic, if someone is milling you, they're giving you options 75% of the time.

But VTES doesn't have any cards that I've seen that want to be in your Ash Heap besides the Emerald Legionnaire - which belongs to the clan which actually wants to mill you, which is funny.

However, there is another way to help the milling strategy. Rather than putting cards from the top of their Library into the Ash Heap, what if you forced them to draw?

Anonymous Tip
Action
Any other Methuselah (not yourself) draws 7 cards (and discards down afterwards.)
Any other Methuselah (not yourself) gets +4 hand-size until the end of their next turn.

Also, playing with new disciplines requirements^ and such.

Mewcat wrote:

Is interactive master Which Is good. Is mill card which is bad. I don't think milling is great for a 5 player game. Maybe a different approach to milling would help but just dropping slaughter house is snoze.

I'd punt slaughter house without much thought. Maybe make it unique?

I was thinking of a necromancy card like this:

Necromancy Action
0 Blood
0 Stealth Action

Inf: Target Player discards the top 3 cards from their deck.

Sup: Put this card into play. At the beginning of your prey's unlock phase, they discard the top 3 cards of their deck. Any minion may destroy this card as a D action. A player may have only 1 [Whatever this card would be called] in play at one time.

LivesByProxy wrote:

So in Magic, milling is dealt with by a few things. The first is cards that are silver-bullets specifically against milling strategies. The second is cards that are anti-mill as a by-product to the cards actual usefulness. Third, and most importantly, is that recursion is much more prevalent in Magic than in Vampire. In Vampire, there are Ashur Tablets, Waste Management Operation, and then what? A couple of Necromancy cards that let you grab cards from the Ash Heap? In Magic, there are hundreds of cards (dozens and dozens of really good cards) that, if they end up in your discard pile, may as well be in your hand. In Magic, if someone is milling you, they're giving you options 75% of the time.

But VTES doesn't have any cards that I've seen that want to be in your Ash Heap besides the Emerald Legionnaire - which belongs to the clan which actually wants to mill you, which is funny.

However, there is another way to help the milling strategy. Rather than putting cards from the top of their Library into the Ash Heap, what if you forced them to draw?

Anonymous Tip
Action
Any other Methuselah (not yourself) draws 7 cards (and discards down afterwards.)
Any other Methuselah (not yourself) gets +4 hand-size until the end of their next turn.

Also, playing with new disciplines requirements^ and such.

That's a really neat idea, and a great way to combat the pretty boring slog of just discarding random cards.

I think Ashurs is really bad for the game. I think the idea of cards being played from the ash heap is an interesting one as well.

Thanks for your contributions to this conversation!

DJHedgehog wrote:

Mewcat wrote:

Is interactive master Which Is good. Is mill card which is bad. I don't think milling is great for a 5 player game. Maybe a different approach to milling would help but just dropping slaughter house is snoze.

I'd punt slaughter house without much thought. Maybe make it unique?

I was thinking of a necromancy card like this:

Necromancy Action
0 Blood
0 Stealth Action

Inf: Target Player discards the top 3 cards from their deck.

Sup: Put this card into play. At the beginning of your prey's unlock phase, they discard the top 3 cards of their deck. Any minion may destroy this card as a D action. A player may have only 1 [Whatever this card would be called] in play at one time.

I don't hate that card. Promotes interaction which should be the point of multiplayer game. I think maybe the power level is a bit off since we have to consider bleed for 6 as a baseline.

Maybe something like...
Harbinger action
Burn 3 cards from library as d action
Or
If over 6 cap put into play. Unique. Player burns 1 pool in untap for every 15 cards in ash heap. Can be burned as d action. If successful player burns 3 cards from library.

Don't know on specifics but idea to make it matter faster and be crushing after a while.

DJHedgehog wrote:

LivesByProxy wrote:

So in Magic, milling is dealt with by a few things. The first is cards that are silver-bullets specifically against milling strategies. The second is cards that are anti-mill as a by-product to the cards actual usefulness. Third, and most importantly, is that recursion is much more prevalent in Magic than in Vampire. In Vampire, there are Ashur Tablets, Waste Management Operation, and then what? A couple of Necromancy cards that let you grab cards from the Ash Heap? In Magic, there are hundreds of cards (dozens and dozens of really good cards) that, if they end up in your discard pile, may as well be in your hand. In Magic, if someone is milling you, they're giving you options 75% of the time.

But VTES doesn't have any cards that I've seen that want to be in your Ash Heap besides the Emerald Legionnaire - which belongs to the clan which actually wants to mill you, which is funny.

However, there is another way to help the milling strategy. Rather than putting cards from the top of their Library into the Ash Heap, what if you forced them to draw?

Anonymous Tip
Action
Any other Methuselah (not yourself) draws 7 cards (and discards down afterwards.)
Any other Methuselah (not yourself) gets +4 hand-size until the end of their next turn.

Also, playing with new disciplines requirements^ and such.

That's a really neat idea, and a great way to combat the pretty boring slog of just discarding random cards.

I think Ashurs is really bad for the game. I think the idea of cards being played from the ash heap is an interesting one as well.

Thanks for your contributions to this conversation!

Well, both variations of this card (mainly the first) would add a lot of time to the game each player having to decide which card to keep and which one to discard...). And if someone wants to play multiple copies of it, we could have 10-15 min lost just discarding...

Since nobody has said it yet, I think the strongest point of this card, considering current meta, is that it stops Legionaires deader than death. Also shamblers, but I haven't seen those in ages.