Progeny sect change

self wrote:

Eliminating the default sect rule does make fact that antitribu clans exist a little more awkward, but if y'all are issuing sweeping changes... *whistles innocently* we could probably just fold them into their non-antitribu counterparts. The concept of SPOOKY OPPOSITE WORLD CLANS was lame when it was introduced.

I'd prefer to keep this conversation on-topic and only about the rules question asked in the original post and about the ramifications of eliminating the default sect rule.

If you'd like to talk about merging the Sabbat clans in with their Camarilla counterparts, which is a good conversation to have, please start a new topic.

BenPeal wrote:

Open question for you all: what potential issues do you see with eliminating default sect?

None that should concern us. Whatever swarm you can think about, the already pretty much do it and pack bounce on top of it.

BenPeal wrote:

Open question for you all: what potential issues do you see with eliminating default sect?

The most obvious is it breaks what - I would think - is most people's intuitive understanding of Clan Impersonation. I've just gone to all the trouble of convincing everyone I'm a Lasombra, but I'm still Camarilla? Oops. I guess similar applies technically to Qadir ul-Ghani.

Neither are game-breaking(*) but whereas you can fix Third Tradition with a few words like "the same sect as the acting vampire" or whatever, you can't re-implement the current behaviour on Clan Impersonation with a short change. You might get there by rewording it to something like: Which would be a small upgrade on current text. You could become a Laibon Toreador if you wanted to, or a titled vampire could become Anarch without changing clan (by picking their current clan).

(*) I'm pretty much of the view that almost any deck that starts "First I play Clan Impersonation..." as a key plank in its strategy is onto a loser. But some people like doing it for fun.

The Embrace, Raw Recruit and The Becomming does not mention sect either.

Bamba and Third Traditon: Progeny are implicit due to their requirements, but clarity doesnt hurt.

Cards that allrady mentions sect are Waters of Duat, Create Gargoyle, Thin Blooded Seer and Tumnimos.

I probably have missed some.

BenPeal wrote:

Open question for you all: what potential issues do you see with eliminating default sect?

Minor errata required to the four Indie sect changing cards, which all currently say "The [clan] is a Camarilla clan", which makes no sense in a world where clans don't have sects.

You don't necessarily need to eliminate default sect to fix the various baby-makers that lack a sect designation, but it seems like a good idea to make both moves at once. Mostly, let's simplify an already overly complex game.

Remove X is a Camarilla clan from the Cam inclusion votes. The rest of the text is fine.
Remove Camarilla from Al-Ashrad's special. He still won't be overpowered.
Give sect of parent to all baby makers that are missing it.
Set Web of Knives Recruit to use Independent or when it enters play "choose a sect of an Assamite that you control, this vampire has the same sect".
Allow Clan Impersonation to also alter sect, per jamesatzephyr above. (To be honest, the game makes changing sects too hard already.)

BenPeal wrote:

There's also the potential for The Eldest Are Kholo to become overpowered.

Ravnos, Setite, and Gargoyle (all clans with baby-makers that inherit sect) Revolutionary Council decks haven't really torn up the tournament scene since Anarch was made a sect and two of those three have vote push in-clan. Tumnimos and Bamba already make Laibon vampires, so the addition of more Laibon via The Embrace probably isn't going to imbalance anything either, and if it does, errata for The Eldest are Kholo can be accomplished in many different ways.

We should strive to make the barrier to entry to VtES lower. Adding clarity to the baby-makers and removing default sect will do just that. We need it to be easier to get new players to play.