file First Tradition and Unlock Phase

17 Jul 2019 19:39 - 17 Jul 2019 19:45 #95876 by Kushiel
After it got mentioned on FB recently, I realized that I don't actually know how First Tradition works since it got errata'd to force players to choose to burn pool or skip their turn during their unlock phase, rather than before the start of their turn.

Leaving aside the fact that the current wording seems to result in players killing their own grandparents before they were born any time they'd choose to skip their turn (how can they skip their entire turn if the choice is being made during that turn?), the most common question that would arise is:
Since the choice is an unlock phase effect, and all unlock phase effects occur after mandatory unlocking of all cards, does this mean that "skipping his or her entire turn" will still result in their cards being unlocked?

First Tradition: The Masquerade
Requires a prince or justicar.
If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Each Methuselah must burn 2 pool during his or her unlock phase. A Methuselah can choose to skip his or her entire turn. Burn this card when the controller has either skipped 3 turns or burned a total of 6 pool by this effect.

EDIT: As an aside, I suggest that the word "instead" be inserted after "his or her entire turn." As it currently reads, it looks like you have to burn two pool even if you do choose to skip your turn, since again, skipping their entire turn can only happen if they get to the unlock phase in the first place, and if they're in the unlock phase, they must burn two pool.
Last edit: 17 Jul 2019 19:45 by Kushiel.

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17 Jul 2019 20:01 - 17 Jul 2019 20:10 #95877 by narpassword

since it got errata'd to force players to choose to burn pool or skip their turn during their unlock phase, rather than before the start of their turn..


you dont choose to skip your turn in the unlock phase.
you burn your 2 pool in your unlock phase if you ever make it there by choosing to take your turn.

if (turn is Taken)
then:
burn Two Pool


It reads fine to me - but i guess an improvement could be made in ordering - putting the choice at the front with the consequences after.

First Tradition: The Masquerade
Requires a prince or justicar.
If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. A Methuselah can choose to skip his or her entire turn. Each Methuselah must burn 2 pool during his or her unlock phase. Burn this card when the controller has either skipped 3 turns or burned a total of 6 pool by this effect.

/shrug
Last edit: 17 Jul 2019 20:10 by narpassword.

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17 Jul 2019 20:30 #95878 by TwoRazorReign

since it got errata'd to force players to choose to burn pool or skip their turn during their unlock phase, rather than before the start of their turn..


you dont choose to skip your turn in the unlock phase.
you burn your 2 pool in your unlock phase if you ever make it there by choosing to take your turn.

if (turn is Taken)
then:
burn Two Pool


This card may benefit from a rewrite. I would specifically state when the decision is made. I'd also state the burning pool effect using conditional tense. Hopefully the below rewrite preserves the intended effect.

"If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Any Methuselah can choose to either skip their entire turn or take their turn as normal before their unlock phase. If a Methuselah takes their turn as normal, they must burn 2 pool during their unlock phase. Burn this card when the controller has either skipped 3 turns or burned a total of 6 pool by this effect."

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17 Jul 2019 20:40 #95879 by narpassword


"If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Any Methuselah can choose to either skip their entire turn or take their turn as normal before their unlock phase. If a Methuselah takes their turn as normal, they must burn 2 pool during their unlock phase. Burn this card when the controller has either skipped 3 turns or burned a total of 6 pool by this effect."


I choose to take my turn as normal before my unlock phase =p

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17 Jul 2019 20:53 #95880 by TwoRazorReign
Sorry, I don't understand your reply. The card text is forcing a dichotomous choice (take your turn or don't take your turn). Both sides of the dichotomy should probably be stated. Should I take your reply to mean that you disagree?

It may seem silly to you, and that's fine. But, with a card like First Tradition, which has an effect that disrupts from the normal flow of turns, it's better to be too detailed than not detailed enough. Effects that do this are more jarring to players in practice than as they appear on the card (hence the original post). That's my viewpoint at least.

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17 Jul 2019 21:34 - 17 Jul 2019 21:36 #95881 by narpassword
take my reply to mean 'no matter how much someone thinks they've got the perfect wording, there is still a very high chance someone can misinterpret it'

you presented a choice:

"choose to either skip their entire turn or take their turn as normal before their unlock phase"

choose to:
a - skip their entire turn
or
b - take their turn as normal before their unlock phase
Last edit: 17 Jul 2019 21:36 by narpassword.

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