file Submission: Bargain For Power, a way to make your minions infernal.

09 Nov 2015 13:15 - 09 Nov 2015 13:41 #74155 by Whisker
Name: Bargain For Power
Cardtype: Action
Cost: none
+2 stealth action. Requires a non-infernal vampire.
Put this card on the acting vampire. Choose a discipline, vampire with this card gains a level of the chosen discipline and a level of daimonion :dai:. A vampire with this card is infernal. A vampire can only have one Bargain For Power.

Compelling game need: Currently there is no viable way to make your own minions infernal, Barbaro Lucchese does not count. Also a way to get some of those elusive bloodline disciplines at the cost of becoming infernal.

Art notes: A vellum scroll describing an agreement between powers infernal and the signer, in this case Dylan.

World of Darkness reference: Not any single source comes to mind, but exchanging your soul for power is more or less the very idea of infernalism.

Created by: Mikko Moisander

Notes: Yes, you can choose :dai:, thus gaining superior level of it. I am bit worried about this making it too easy to get some of the other exotic disciplines, but can't think of a proper cost or requirement to balance it. Originally I also had the card to increase the vampire's capacity by 1, but deemed it too easy to abuse in Soul Gem decks.
Last edit: 09 Nov 2015 13:41 by Whisker.

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09 Nov 2015 14:27 - 09 Nov 2015 14:54 #74158 by Ankha
I'm more concerned about gaining Temporis rather than superior Daimoinon. There's the Textbook Damnation that makes you easily infernal, so I don't really understand your compelling game need, unless you want multiple infernal vampires for some reason (in which case a crypt of Hordes would do the job).

Name: The Textbook Damnation
[KMW:R]
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Unique equipment.
The vampire with this equipment has superior Daimoinon [DAI] and is infernal. Cards that require Daimoinon [dai] cost this vampire 2 less blood. During your master phase, if this vampire is tapped, burn this equipment.

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Last edit: 09 Nov 2015 14:54 by Ankha.

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09 Nov 2015 17:03 #74163 by Whisker
Yes, Temporis came to my mind as possible problem, mainly because of Summon History.

Textbook Damnation is uniqe equipment and to consistently get your copy, you either need many copies or tons of get equipment tech (Vast Wealth, MotS etc.). Greatest problem with Textbook however is the build in burn clause. Playing with Vast Wealt, you can often get textbook early but then have to wait the other part of your combo for some time, paying for the infernal cost all the time, or glock your hand with the textbook and all that now useless get equipment tech.

If Hordes were of group any, they would be perfect. Right now they have quite a limited crypt of friends to play with. Hmm... Mayby something in vein of Anarch Convert: When Infernal convert enters play, you may remove him from game to make an another minion you control infernal.

Although not the main purpose, my card also has the evil use of making borrowed minions infenal. Temptate some poor bloke, make him infernal and give him discipline you like. Next time you borrow him, he is more useful and mean time original controller will incur the infernal cost.

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26 Nov 2015 04:21 #74540 by snegiem
in the world of darkness roleplaying game contrary to the card game, there was no strict definition of "infernal" vampires ...
it could include one or more of the following options :
- option A: vampires following the path of evil revelations
- option B: vampires who stroke a bargain with one or more demons
- option C: baalis due to the links of the bloodline to demons (even if not all were promoting or worshipping them)

For the option A: the book of evil revelation seems to be directly inspired from the path and its ways of transmission.
For option B, we have such cards linked to the bargain with demons as "infernal pact" or "infernal familiar" (even if none of them takes the idea of infernal)
For option C, we have nothing except maybe sanguine instruction...

in fact for the option C, baali was not only a bloodline in the wod, it was close to a religion. you could convert (even if painfully) to it. even in terms of gameplay there was an advantage called "apostate" in the baali clanbokk which allowed to play a baali coming originally from another clan. (consequently it was possible to play a baali with "clan" disciplines different from the core baali disciplines)

there was even a sub group of lasombra (the angelis ater) which were notorious to have been infiltrated or seduced a lot by the baalis mixing knowledges of obtenetration and daimonion.

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26 Nov 2015 11:34 #74542 by Ashur

Yes, Temporis came to my mind as possible problem, mainly because of Summon History.

Yes, this is a problem. Must there be a discipline level involved? Couldn´t the demonic award be something else? I think there is enough strange ways to gain discipline levels.

Also, I don´t see the compelling game need. Why is it good for the game that more vamps can use Infernal-cards?

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

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26 Nov 2015 14:32 #74543 by ReverendRevolver
I'm going to say the book is viable. How many minions do you need to be infernal? Other clans/disciplines are less supported. There's no "textbook:Melpominee 101".
Textbook damnation:
MotS for it. Play concordance for free, as the crow. Heidleberg it to someone else. Concordance free, as the crow. You get the idea. Then let it burn. You get a small army of flying +1 strength "agg as normal" minions. You don't have to be infernal to have concordance, just to keep it. Not sure what to DO with it, but Gangrel rushers with no-torpor force of will bleeds, ventrue unblockable dawn op stuff, !ventrue g2 with Vincent day to mots, and for pot Dom people support, madness network flyers (as the crow) with "burn a blood to untap at influence phase" .....

All kinds of stuff. Basically, all the strengths of gargoyles except for rock cat, without sucking like gargoyles.

Textbook also let's you play condemnations, contagion, and Unleash hells fury. Servitor as well. None of this needs you to stay infernal, so you can burn the book when your tired of paying the Satan tax.

You could tool up Windham with concordance, contagion, condemnation mute another persons minion, play a UHF, and let the book burn.

Agent of power letting literally ANYBODY summon history for Remnant of the endless storm or Ankara citadel is bad enough, I don't think this card is needed, or safe. On a side note SH being hard to acquire is probably why everyone doesn't break the dang thing.

Lastly, infernalism is a setback. In-clan stuff, the "psuedo disciplines", and some DAI cards are all it helps. It costs pool and let's True Faith go from joke card to "metagamed" . textbook is hot. I can't see any strategy where you wouldn't want it or baali(or Ian forestall or petaniqua or valarious) over random ppl being infernal. Oh, and remember l, I am Legion, psychomachia and many more just need DAI not infernal. So sanguine instruction twice can allow DAI on malks with petaniqua etc...

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