On how I hate Rego Motus

Chaitan wrote:

Reyda wrote:

To the point of being a no brainer, like deflection can be in a tremere/anti deck.

10+ player TWD deck with Atleast 50% tremere/!tremere and deflection = 104 results
10+ player TWD deck with Atleast 50% tremere/!tremere and Rego Motus = 21 results

10+ player TWD deck with deflection = 696 results
10+ player TWD deck with Rego Motus = 23 results

Deflection is up there in the top 10 best cards in the game. Rego Motus doesn't even play in the same league.
[source: secretlibrary]

Considering that
-The table winning deck archive traces tournament back to 1997.
-Rego Motus was released end of end of november 2008.
-and Deflection is in the game since day one.

I'd like to ask : Please, before trying to use numbers as reflection of facts, think twice.
Thank you.

Chaitan wrote:

Reyda wrote:

To the point of being a no brainer, like deflection can be in a tremere/anti deck.

10+ player TWD deck with Atleast 50% tremere/!tremere and deflection = 104 results
10+ player TWD deck with Atleast 50% tremere/!tremere and Rego Motus = 21 results

10+ player TWD deck with deflection = 696 results
10+ player TWD deck with Rego Motus = 23 results

Deflection is up there in the top 10 best cards in the game. Rego Motus doesn't even play in the same league.

[source: secretlibrary]

It's not a bad performance for RM considering that it's been available only since KoT while deflection was in game from the start. And the statistics not filtering on tremere just made me laugh : way to introduce bias ! ^^ It's not like dominate is much more of a easily available power discipline than thaumaturgy.
Anyway Rego Motus vs Deflection is apples vs oranges. Every deck has to bleed some time or another

Even if it weren't game-changing (maybe it is, maybe not, it's not really the matter), Rego Motus follows that trend that nowadays every discipline does a bit of everything (intercept with protean, etc.). E.g. if you wanted to combo blood theft with prevention you had to play THA-FOR, but it's not necessary anymore. Why play Cardano when Masika St John will just do the trick ? Hence the "lazy deckbuilding" Reyda is talking about, I guess.

Which makes me wonder, concerning the future designs to introduce in the game (*crosses fingers*), would it really be a good thing to design more discipline requiring cards ? How to do it without diluting each discipline specifics and while avoiding redundancy ?

Both Protean and Thaumaturgy have sort of been 'bit of everything' type discplines from the start, and intercept is definetily thematic for protean. The very first level of protean is about enhancing your senses for example, and taking in all of the various paths of thaumaturgy, it really can do about anything in the rpg too.

Klaital wrote:

Both Protean and Thaumaturgy have sort of been 'bit of everything' type discplines from the start (...)

Considering the rest of your post I am not sure if this sentence is supposed to apply to card design (in the ccg) or the general masquerade lore.

Invoking lore-based arguments in card design discussions does not really make sense. I mean, if you design a card on a lore-based game of course you should be able to translate it in some way into lore stuff, but the opposite is not true. That it exists in the lore does not automatically make it ok as far as card design is concerned.

By the way I'm not a lore expert but wasn't the first level of protean "gleam of red eyes" a power that has been translated into the game from the start as press/maneuver ?

iirc the name for the same power in another edition was 'Eyes of the Beast' which was made to an intercept card. And really, being able to see in the dark sounds more like intercept than manuevers or presses to me. (From what I recall, IR Goggles and Sport Bike were originally going to have their effects other way around, which would make more sense also, but for whatever reason were swapped, probably because stackable intercept would have been more potentially unbalanced than stackable manuevers.)

Thats not the only case where same power from the rpg has multiple vastly different adaptations in the card game either. Most extreme example of this is that most of the Spiritus cards are different 'modes' of the Spiritus level 3 power, Aspect of the Beast (pretty much every spiritus card that has some animal in the name).