question-circle What should be done with Reversal of Fortune?

09 Apr 2012 17:08 #27537 by Surreal

Joscha wrote: To cut a long story short: I'm very careful with calls for banning because I think that is an easy and too common reflex when a card seems to be strong. I have the impression people rather call for a ban of a card instead to think how to counter its threat gamewise.
But I'm not sure on this card, because that decktype lowers the game-experience of too many other players. Watching just one guy playing is seldom fun (it was for me at Mallorca as I didn't see the deck work before).
OTOH that deck is really not that succesful. Is it played so often that we have to care?


I don't think anybody is saying that Reversal of Fortune is strong. I just wouldn't like to see Reversal of Fortune decks possible because I feel the game is not Vtes anymore. Same reason I wouldn't want to see seat switchers ever again even as super weak card or better turbo decks. Some could of course argue that combo decks should be part of Vtes.

But Reversal of Fortune is not a major problem. I have seen the deck once or twice. So banning is not so necessary. Also Reversal of Fortune is only used in annoyed not "Vtes decks" so I can't see many arguments to not ban it. I feel Vtes doesn't gain anything by allowing Reversal of Fortune to be playable. So I guess best way is just hope players realize that deck is bad and don't play it. That situation is happening now and I hope it doesn't change. But if it would change, I would first persons to jump in ban wagon.
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09 Apr 2012 23:20 #27551 by me3845
Just because a deck makes it not much fun for the table or a few at other players doesn't mean it or a card should be banned.

I play a malkav deck that kills the whole table and myself but still allows me to take out my prey most of the table in order for me. I have played with it and against it and it sucks but doesn't mean it should be banned. I think thats part of the problem when people build decks.They re so stream lined that when someone throws a wrench into their deck 1st reaction is thats broken and I shouldn't have to put a card into my deck to defend that.

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10 Apr 2012 03:17 #27553 by Juggernaut1981
I've tried to play a lot of VTES tournaments and I've NEVER seen a RoF+Madness Network deck played. It doesn't mean I don't think they would be horridly annoying, but then again Madness Network would mean that someone still has to get the chance to take actions to kill the Madness Network. I've got my own Rachel Brandywine Homonculus Network Breeder (it's actually not a "Rachel bleeds for Mucho" but Rachel makes babies and the babies Night Moves you to gain the edge before you gain another with Victoria). Kill the Network and the deck works reasonably, but nothing as insane as it was before.

Kill the Network, remove your Reversal of Fortunes problems.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
www.halflingcaravangames.com.au/

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10 Apr 2012 06:29 #27560 by Ankha

Juggernaut1981 wrote: I've tried to play a lot of VTES tournaments and I've NEVER seen a RoF+Madness Network deck played. It doesn't mean I don't think they would be horridly annoying, but then again Madness Network would mean that someone still has to get the chance to take actions to kill the Madness Network. I've got my own Rachel Brandywine Homonculus Network Breeder (it's actually not a "Rachel bleeds for Mucho" but Rachel makes babies and the babies Night Moves you to gain the edge before you gain another with Victoria). Kill the Network and the deck works reasonably, but nothing as insane as it was before.

Kill the Network, remove your Reversal of Fortunes problems.

As you said, you haven't seen the deck working. You can't break the Madness Network when you get no turn to play at all (which is happening with this deck).
(BTW assuming that players don't know how to play is a bit offensive.)

I don't mind the deck being strong. What I dislike is that it breaks the game mecanics and the whole player relationship, just as Kindred Restructure did.

If the card is played 0.0001% of the time, then banning it won't change anything in the 99.99999% remaining games.
But for the 0.0001% games, it will be a major improvement to the game experience.
Or fix it to being playable twice per game.

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10 Apr 2012 10:17 #27572 by Chaitan
The problem with RoF+madness network is that it more often than not help its prey. When the deck works fine only RoF's prey (and the RoF player) will get a minion phase. The prey can often quite easily help the table by removing madness network or block the vote but why should he? He is the chosen one out of two who get game turns. The RoF player basically helps his prey with a free turn everytime the deck succeeds. Sure, the RoF player can still vote and bleed his prey but that tech is seriously crippled due to how many cards is needed to uphold the RoF strategy.

Prey win by seating order.

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10 Apr 2012 10:23 #27574 by Surreal

Ankha wrote: If the card is played 0.0001% of the time, then banning it won't change anything in the 99.99999% remaining games.
But for the 0.0001% games, it will be a major improvement to the game experience.
Or fix it to being playable twice per game.


Gameplay wise it would the most logical choice to ban Reversal of Fortune. Whole game would totally improve 0.0001% or some random number. But there is other point too. I can picture banning a card causing some argues that Vekn is changing the game too much or some other random cryings. Also there haven't been any banned cards for a long time and it is cool to say that Vtes has very few banned cards. So it is quite heavy price to pay just for 0.0001% improvement. So I guess best would be just hope Reversal of Fortune decks doesn't show up.

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