file Limit master cards?

30 May 2012 08:00 #31418 by Amenophobis
Replied by Amenophobis on topic Re: Limit master cards?

No, Wash and Sudden is silver bullets.


Huh? You've just argued - quite convincingly - that Wash and Sudden explicitly aren't silver bullets. They won't kill MMPA dead (like a silver bullet kills a werewolf dead, but is crap against, well, everything else). Instead, they're a broad-based defence that happens to be not so useful here, unless you get mildly lucky - right seating, and being able to play it against mildly lynch-pinny, like a Parthenon. But they can still be very useful against all sorts of non-MMPA decks/cards, though again not perfect.


You are of course right here, James.

Sudden and Wash are very inadequate answers to MMPA decks, as has been pointed out various times here in this thread already.
So, the argument of some players, that you should pack more Suddens (or any at all) and/or Washes to counter MMPA decks bears no weight at all.

Btw, while I'm at it, let me state that Ashur Tablets are extremely bad card design.
I have been repeatadly shown that AT are worthless cards in a non-MMPA deck. MMPA decks make it highly unlikely that you will ever pull of 3 AT if you don't stuff your deck full with it. They are simply dead cards and the cardslots could be used for other, more useful stuff instead. In tournaments, you will likely play at least one table where some sort of MMPA deck is present.
In my experience, roughly every second game tends to feature a MMPA deck.

The fact that all AT at the table are removed once one player has played 3 copies is annoying like hell and testament to bad card design and/or lack of playtesting. A normal deck cannot win the arms race against a MMPA deck in this regard.

/rant off
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30 May 2012 08:01 #31419 by Ohlmann
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: Limit master cards?
Part of the point is that if the MMPA deck is cross table, you can either lose ressources to attack it cross table, cross finger that your prey or predator can stop it, or face it at the apex of its power - and after he have done 1/2 trio of ashur tablet, it's likely his deck is optimized against you.

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30 May 2012 10:34 #31421 by Chaitan
Replied by Chaitan on topic Re: Limit master cards?

No, Wash and Sudden is silver bullets.


Huh? You've just argued - quite convincingly - that Wash and Sudden explicitly aren't silver bullets. They won't kill MMPA dead (like a silver bullet kills a werewolf dead, but is crap against, well, everything else). Instead, they're a broad-based defence that happens to be not so useful here, unless you get mildly lucky - right seating, and being able to play it against mildly lynch-pinny, like a Parthenon. But they can still be very useful against all sorts of non-MMPA decks/cards, though again not perfect.



I mean master removal cards is designed to be a silver bullet but (based on my reasoning above) fail to kill the werewolf when facing MMPA.

In a normal game where each methuselah play one master card per round, wash or sudden is good enough. Since you depend on other methuselahs cardflow it is hard to get rid of a stack of Wash/Sudden. The cardflow don't scale as normal master cards do with MMPA.

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30 May 2012 10:47 #31422 by vtesocrates
Replied by vtesocrates on topic Re: Limit master cards?

In a normal game where each methuselah play one master card per round, wash or sudden is good enough. Since you depend on other methuselahs cardflow it is hard to get rid of a stack of Wash/Sudden. The cardflow don't scale as normal master cards do with MMPA.


Are you saying that if nobody plays MMPA, you won't be able to get rid of a Sudden every turn? If that's the case, I can see why MMPA would be so overpowered because you already have players who are under-utilizing their master phases. It should be simple to cycle Suddens. If players aren't playing good masters almost every turn in normal games then they aren't building good decks.
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30 May 2012 11:17 #31424 by Chaitan
Replied by Chaitan on topic Re: Limit master cards?

Are you saying that if nobody plays MMPA, you won't be able to get rid of a Sudden every turn?


No.

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30 May 2012 11:39 #31426 by vtesocrates
Replied by vtesocrates on topic Re: Limit master cards?

Are you saying that if nobody plays MMPA, you won't be able to get rid of a Sudden every turn?


No.


Then explain "Since you depend on other methuselahs cardflow it is hard to get rid of a stack of Wash/Sudden."

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