What do you think of Gather card?

galliard wrote:

ad1 I dont understand what you mean. Gather+Golconda is free pool. You still have full Stanislava. Unlike Villein case.

It's not "free" : you invest pool and action to hope to gain some pool later. Villein let you remove some of the useless blood (no, Stanislava don't need 11 blood on 90% of the game I see ; 5 blood is often plenty in a game), and if you don't use Gather you can siphon every vampire you get, which do net a lot of pool - and you still can Golconda them once they are empty, in torpor, or whatever.

galliard wrote:

ad2 i didnt mean same justicars. you can have one from each clan plus 5 stanislavas in perfect crypt

And they cannot be gathered if they aren't gangrel.

galliard wrote:

ad3govern plus zillah costs 5 pool, 1 master phase and 1 action. gather plus house costs 3 pool, master phase and action only once, then its only 1 pool and action

... BUt since your vampire is full, you can villein it. So, it actually cost less pool to go the Govern + Zillah - in fact, you gain pool instead of spending it.

I count 7 decks in the TWDA using Gather.
I count 13 occurrences of Gather in these 7 decks.
I count 4 of these 7 decks using only 1 Gather.
None uses recycling.

I'll quote Matt Green (2003) : "Amazing. Got me 2 vampires, never got burned" (out of 4 Gathers).

Now, if someone has been abusing the card, the least I can say is that they've not been winning with it.

Remember, Gather is attached to a single >Gangrel< crypt card. If Stanislava plays Gather and targets Angus, once Angus comes out, Gather won't redirect to Ingrid.

And since it's unique, you'll have to burn it if you want to bring someone else in play with Gather.

Ive listed out plenty of gather decks, never bothered building them. Heres the trick:

Use Fakir or Slava.

Once you pick one of them, the rezt of the crypt is the exact same:
Xavier,Zayyat, Karsh,Brunhilde,Torvus.

You play therbold reality. You play house of sorrow. The 11 cap gathers, then freak drives or forced marches to gover or scouting with slava or enchant with fakir. The gathered vamp should be zayyat, unless you can flip him with the beads from the action and transfers. Make sure he has some beads on him.
Then flip him with gather that hos untapped.
Next, turn hos into pool with therbold, play another.
Zayyat uses his special to brunhilde or torvus, 11 cap enchant, govern, whatever to zame vamp, creak drives, gathers karsh or Xavier. Untap gather with hos, bring out two other fatties.

Now you have axtoolbox deck and will be gathering only if you need to burn or golconda a vamp. Slava cersion can vote, and deflect, but fakir can mots and shares tha and pre with zayyat and brunhilde, while slava can forced march with Xavier and Karsh.

Its never broken, tap n cap is WAY more efficient at ganing pool and if its law firm, better at free minions too with maryanne lucinde, or queen ann with prince that are younger. The latter two of those can even oitferior domain of evwrnight and govern enchant scouting, with deflectiond and 2nd trads for defense and multiact bleeds daring dawn and krcs to go offensive, so is just way better and doesnt need combo to work, just the cards it already uses.

Gather is ok, but not amazing.

Gangrel arent as good as they should be.

From what you describe, it is Insurance Scam you play, not Therbold.

Non-existant user wrote:

From what you describe, it is Insurance Scam you play, not Therbold.

My bad, brain wasnt on, apparently. I used scam and therbold in grotesque decks, so i musta crossed some wires in my head.....

galliard wrote:

Dont you think something should be done to prevent this abuse? We should be preactive, before somebody wastes a few tournaments

Given that the Gather + HoS + Golconda (or whatever) combo has been understood for years, it seems likely that it's not game breaking. Yes, you can potentially get quite a lot of pool, but a fair amount of your forward momentum is sacrificed in the process. Also that to get both cards out fairly early, you probably need to stack your deck with quite a few, which causes some related issues later. Also, unlike Villein+Lilith, Gather is an action card, which is usually more interactive - people can block it. And your empty vampire may be vulnerable to various nefarious issues. So it's probably quite a bit more involved than 6 Villeins and three copies of Lilith.

At this stage, the best way to demonstrate how insanely game-breaking the card is really would be to break a few tournaments with it, demonstrating your astonishing V:TES prowess and the card's problems.