file French National Championship - About Reversale of Fortune and Madness Network

23 Sep 2013 15:37 #54303 by ICL
How does making it once a game not allow the other players to play? The deck needs to continuously bounce play back and forth with its prey, at least until it's tooled up.

Now, I personally hate once a game as a fix to cards, so I'd much rather the proposed change of only can be called on your turn, if the path of not stopping out of turn actions isn't used (and I don't expect it to be used).

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23 Sep 2013 17:01 #54304 by ReverendRevolver
I would say this deck is a healthy meta swing at best, another obnoxiuous one trick pony at worste.

Ive played and played against border skirmish malks, a disruptive wall type of thing. Those and googly moogly decks are the only decks ive ever had problems with that use madness network. Ive thought about doing versal madness, but Lutzs kin vs the world is more fun(unless spirit marionette is yoir predator. Then you just get bled alot with your own Lutz if you take any risks...)

Once per game makes reversal just a hair better than eyes of the dead.

With pod off the table, making more cards bad isnt what id think helps the game.
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23 Sep 2013 17:51 #54305 by Ankha

Once per game makes reversal just a hair better than eyes of the dead.

Wrong. It still does a lot of thing, especially if you play cards that moves counter-clockwise (Milicent Smith, Scourge of the Ennochians...)
Do you consider that using Reversal of Fortune to perpetually play with only your prey or predator is the proper use of the card?

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23 Sep 2013 20:05 #54307 by ReverendRevolver
Honestly, the first time i comsidered using it was in a malk deck where i fed jack up to a ton and kept my predator in the game with games and pranks. So id consider its purpose perpetually playing with the two people on either side of me for 20 minutes then ousting the one to my left, after depleting my predators resources.

Now, the fact that this deck did what it did at a national event is the only reason im even watching this thread. A plainly big event, plainly good players, and somehow a deck like this got lucky.

Ive gave tournaments away by takng risks. One to rodd clossen, one to john bell. Undrestimating other decks and thinking id get luckier draws.
Thats not what seems to have happened here.

I think cards need chamged when it breaks the meta enough for everyone to get on the bandwagon, like with girls decks. No secrets wins a continental, we respect laibon for that card. Matt hirsch wins the NAC with a hannibal adv toolbox and i started using golconda more often.

Girls or imbued srart winning everyone starts using them, even though they are boring as hell.

I dont think thats what we have here. Jay Kristoff once won a large tourney in Atlanta with g2 gargoyles. The indy ones. I cant replicate such sucess with indy gargoyles. At all, even in casual, and i doubt jay would even try at this point.
Reversal madness has always been a "wouldnt it be cool if..." deck, and its had VERY little sucess. Googly moogly second trad earth meld is the clear strong madness network deck, followed by derange decks.

Its a cheesy mean card, but i dont (yet) see it being too much. PTO is errata-able imho. This card isnt hat good by any stretch.

I may agree with you in a year, but nit until reversal madness is the new flavor of the week deck like girls and weenie animalism were(both of which block or sudden this decks game away).

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23 Sep 2013 21:47 #54309 by ICL
Winning a lot is a criterion for being concerned about a card. Just making games suck is another.

Nobody is arguing overpoweredness. The argument is that not getting to play the game just because someone has some trick deck is suboptimal. Sure, it's rare as hell. That's just more argument (in my analysis of CCG problems) for doing something to stop it from ever seeing play.

For those who haven't played against the deck, it's incredibly stupid to just watch other people, mostly one person when it works, play the game. Now, that's not terribly different from being Anarch Revolt bombed out of existence or having all of your minions rushed, having all of your minions stolen and nuked, or whatever. So, I don't hate this deck as much as I could, as there's too much hate to pass around. And, it can fail to get its (soft) lock, though it helps immensely if people understand how it works to prevent it from comboing off.

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24 Sep 2013 04:36 #54317 by Ankha
People did understand how it worked, including his prey that could have stopped him. But since he was offered GW3 on turn 2, why would he have declined the offer?
The difference with being crushed by Anarch Revolt/Rush/whatsoever is that it's still a multiplayer game. People may help you. Table dynamics may change. With a Madness Reversal game, the whole multiplayer aspect is denied.

@ReverendRevolver: Dramatic Upheaval was banned for a similar kind of reason ("undermining predator-prey relationship"), not because it was a main archetype.
Except by putting 7 Dark Influences in the deck in case you're neither the deck's prey or predator, there's nothing much you can do against it.

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