file Tremere Paths

19 Mar 2014 15:37 - 19 Mar 2014 15:48 #60107 by yesferatu
Tremere Paths was created by yesferatu
So forgive me if this has been discussed somewhere else, but I think it's time the Tremere got some love.

I was trying to put together some Tremere/!Tremere combat decks, and it occurred to me just how terrible their combat it is. Compared to other clans, their combat is at a disadvantage. It either costs blood, or can't be used first turn, or maxes out at 2 damage. Plus, their vampires are inherently fragile and expensive.

Does anyone honestly fear Tremere combat anymore?

Then it hit me...PATHS! Why aren't there Thaumaturgical paths?
There are a few cards that refer to specific rituals here and there, but back in the tabletop days, I remember every Tremere following a magical path.

Just the basics might include:
Path of Blood (Temporary gen increase/Increased Stength-style damage boost)
Path of Flame (Deal/mitigate agg)
Path of Movement (Immortal Grapple-style that restricts strikes)
Path of Weather (Lighting Strikes/Drawing out the Beast-style Fog)

I could see an action or a master, that could be placed on the vampire, that augmented existing Thaumaturgy cards. (Path of Blood on you gives a free maneuver to "theft" style combat cards, Lure of Flames allows first-round strikes)

Do people think it would be feasible/necessary to add a Path mechanic to Tremere that allowed for more effective combat?
Last edit: 19 Mar 2014 15:48 by yesferatu.

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19 Mar 2014 17:13 - 19 Mar 2014 17:20 #60108 by gotcha
Replied by gotcha on topic Re: Tremere Paths
I completely disagree. I think tremere are still one of the more powerful clans.
I'll try to sum up some reasons:
- Theft of vitae is still a great combat card against many opponents (ally, ani, guns, grinder, ...).
- Flames of the netherworld is 1R aggr for 1 blood .... which is about the same as fe breath of the dragon. In combination with rotschreck ( and possibly MotSmith & ivory bow) that is pretty awesome in my book.
- Tremere have (maybe not the best but still) prevention, namely rego motus + they have magic of the smith to fetch what is needed most (bowl, sniper rifle, goggles, prevention, ...) so they aren't that vulnerable in my opinion.
- Vampires ... I think they have almost best selection that's available: you have great small caps like blythe, martin franckel, hannigan, aisling, keith moody, andrew stuart, sarah cobbler, etc etc
They have amazing midcaps like selena, carna, gerald fitzgerald, johannes worringen, valerius, ash harrison, etc etc
They have some of more powerfull large caps like malgorzata, ulugh beg, goratrix, cardano, gerald windham, ....
And they have special vamps like antonio, ian forestal, muaziz, etc for "special " decks that still can be very powerful.
- They have both the best intercept and bleed skill (+ bounce/bounce) + decent combat options ... and they have an amazing stealth-card named mirror walk. Compare this to ... lets say nosferatu or samedi - )
- Besides all this they have acces to ponticulus, arcane library, chantry, nephandi, ankara citadel, biothaumaturgic experiment, tupdogs ....

The only point worth noticing about tremere is that it is a pity it is hard (not impossible) to play the old combat cards like drain essence, cauldron of blood, weather control, etc... and for the rest it is hard to choose how to play them because there are so many options)

I recommend to read thoughts betrayed (SUP) again ..... and have a look at blood brothers clan - /
Last edit: 19 Mar 2014 17:20 by gotcha.
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19 Mar 2014 18:22 #60110 by brandonsantacruz
Replied by brandonsantacruz on topic Re: Tremere Paths
Trem grind really well. Theft plus apportation plus the occasional wws/target vitals gives even weenies good hit back. 2nd round combat is really just for the lols and burning war ghouls with blood to water.

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

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19 Mar 2014 18:37 - 19 Mar 2014 18:39 #60111 by yesferatu
Replied by yesferatu on topic Re: Tremere Paths
I might be in the minority. Every time I've tried traditional combat with the Tremere, I end up burned or in torpor. Admittedly, they do have Auspex and Dominate for bleed mechanics. However, of all the combat disciples available, I would put Thaumaturgy dead last.
Last edit: 19 Mar 2014 18:39 by yesferatu.

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19 Mar 2014 21:43 #60114 by Squidalot
Replied by Squidalot on topic Re: Tremere Paths
Mono quietus and thanatosis are far worse.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Juggernaut1981, ReverendRevolver, TryDeflectingThisGrapple

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19 Mar 2014 21:59 - 19 Mar 2014 22:07 #60115 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Re: Tremere Paths
Looking at a clans inclans normally tell you how strong a clan in vtes is, in general.

So, dom is "great" best there is. Aus is good, arguably best blocking discipline there is. Tham is also good, one of the best support disciplines period.
Here, tham can grant them its normal toolup MotS, or fill niches on a deck by deck basis. Fortitude is prevent and multiact, and tham gives rego motus and rutors hand. Potence is plus strength, and we have super hand strikes, and plus strentth like serenading the kami and biothaum. Celerity dodges and gives additionals, so not so great immitatimg it, but theres wind dance i suppose. Proteans a joke, but they have agg, which tham does better. Stealth from mirrorwalk. Basically, tham fills in the void of whatever you need.

Clan cards:

Tremere have ankara citadel. I could probably just stop defending that they need NO MORE LOVE at that.
But they have ponticulous, chantry, and blade of enoch(thats the 2x to heal damage thing, right? They get a cool sword). Also, they are cam so they get parity shift, second trad, judgement cam seg, parity shift, first tradition, parity shift, good milage out of titles, parity shift, alastor, and oh, um, parity shift .

!Tremere get Nephundi (the no-fun-guy!) And the best gargoyle (only viable gargoyle, despite what jay kristoff can win with...) as thier slave. And they get a card fetching location, in addition to (for reasons i assume are thematically linked to them following in Goratrixs teachings and making deals with beings from fallen planes of reality) infernal pact, which is underplayed but still just as potentially broken, if you are willing to build waxky, i guess. Sabbat may lack parity shift, but theres abbots for EVERYONE if you are sabbat, then eternal vigilance, and now under siege. Then masters like the underused powerbase barranquilla, then the not used alot by thefting !tremere hungry coyote, and of course black forest base.

Lastly, thaum in vtes is like 476 paths lumped into a disxipline logo. Just like necromancy, except, you know, playable cards have the tham symbol on them, necro we just try to pretend is usable. The ship has aailed for making things like tham paths in vtes.
Movement of the mind could be a toolup action granting flight and a manuever, if we use another name since movement of the mind is a less than great card already.

In closing, what makes them need love? Thier badass disciplines, thier freaking solid clan and sect cards, or thier backstory that Tremeres a douchebag who thought he'd destroyed Saulot but was really Saulots bitch the whole time?

Meanwhile, not in the main chantry of the tremere.....

Gangrel and HoS really do neex help, because they are stuck with necro and protean and less awesome clan cards and sect affiliations across the board.

But, paths in the beginning wouldve added uniqueness to tham, and maybe necro wouldnt suck so bad if it had them then too.
Last edit: 19 Mar 2014 22:07 by ReverendRevolver.

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