file Balancing Ashur Tablets

09 Jul 2014 18:29 #63590 by Orpheus
First, why ? Well, I believe that right now this card is way too strong, and it is also rare and expensive.

It is a card that is present in maybe 50% of the winning decks right now, which says a lot about it (and it's not a Blood Dool type of card either).

Recursion is the stronger mechanism in the game. It should be restricted to Necromancers and users of Temporis. With Ashur anyone can have it, and it makes the multiple Master decks even stronger than they are, and they didn't need that.

Now : how ?

Sol. 1 : ban it outright. For me this should always be a last resort, I believe there are many better things to do.

Sol. 2 : Ashur was the Cappadocian antediluvian. If Ashur Tablets required a Harbinger of Skulls I think it would balance it way more. Hell, I'm pretty sure some decks would include one HoS just for that purpose !

Sol. 3 : Create a card that trumps it. For example an event stating that no card allowing a card to be taken back from the Ash Heap can be played, except through Necromancy, Temporis, or a Giovanni of HoS clan card. The theme of the event would be that the necromancers take back the control of the otherworld. Hell, it could even be a Gio / HoS card.
Note that this also trumps Anthelios, and that can't be bad in my book.

Another way to do that could be a Master or an action that can destroy all cards in play "not on a vampire" with the same name, with cost equal to the cards destroyed. So one Dreams would cost 1 pool, 4 Ashur (played by various Methuselahs) would cost 0. This could need to be balanced but you get the general idea.

Sol. 4 : tune down the card somehow (the card in hand + cards in deck + pool gain is way too much).

Thoughts and comments welcome.

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09 Jul 2014 18:35 #63591 by Zenedar
Replied by Zenedar on topic Balancing Ashur Tablets
Solution five: Make it so it's only possible to shuffle back MINION cards.
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09 Jul 2014 18:38 #63592 by Orpheus
Replied by Orpheus on topic Balancing Ashur Tablets
It's a solution, but do you think the cycling of the Master cards is the worst thing you can do with Ashur ? Many decks will get minion cards back and win thus (Tupdogs for instance).

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09 Jul 2014 19:52 #63593 by cordovader
Replied by cordovader on topic Balancing Ashur Tablets
There's no point in doing that.

Ashur Tablets auto-regulate themselves. If everyone plays Ashur Tablets, the guys playing them will break themselves their Ashur Tablets respectively.

And if that's not the case, that means Ashur Tablets aren't that much played.

Anyway if that anoys you just play Trochomancy. ;)
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09 Jul 2014 22:35 #63597 by Orpheus
Replied by Orpheus on topic Balancing Ashur Tablets
Well sure there is.

When the only / best way to counter a card / strategy is to adopt the same one, that card / strategy is bad for the game. In any game. Always has been, always will be.

And not "everyone" plays Ashur. Not that many players in fact, compared to the number of decks with Ashur that actually WIN ! Which shows how broken that card is.

:laugh: @Trocho. ;)

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10 Jul 2014 04:19 #63606 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Balancing Ashur Tablets

Orpheus wrote: It is a card that is present in maybe 50% of the winning decks right now, which says a lot about it (and it's not a Blood Dool type of card either).

Building a discussion on false assertion is not a good way to start.
Out of the last 100 TWD registered, only 16 contained Ashur Tablets.

Orpheus wrote: it makes the multiple Master decks even stronger than they are, and they didn't need that.

That is maybe a problem with MMPA decks, not Ashur Tablets.

Frankly, I find the card interesting for deck building and balanced.
  • Using 6 or 9 Ashur Tablets to build a 70 cards deck that relies on massive copies of a card (Barrenness for instance) is great (the deck would be otherwise impossible to build)
  • Discarding a Dragonbound in the early game and getting it back with Ashur Tablets seems ok to me.
  • Taking back a Pentex Subversion in hand isn't a problem, even for MMPA decks because they could use Anthelios anyway.

Of course, people tend to see the tip of the iceberg ("50% of the decks...", "MMPA decks are even stronger with it...") but the card is fine.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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