exclamation-circle Cards Bans 2016 (Anthelios, the red star, Seeds of corruption,Temptation of Greater Power)

21 Jan 2016 21:45 - 21 Jan 2016 21:46 #75121 by zkopiosy
GreyB,

do you realize that it's not realistic to do all that in the same game? And i do not say that for playing a khazar animalism mmpa rush deck :)

You forgot that if you predator has a wash, he also can wash you the picked master every turn?

When you play anthelios, your deck is built with a lot masters in only one examplary, so you aren't always in a situation where your pentex or you archon is in the discard pile... Or maybe you haven't got your anthelios, or maybe no master in hand.....

If you hope on your recursive archon to deal with heavy bleeder as predator, you will be dead before got the setup in place, and the bleeder will stp to bleed you for 4 or more :)

You are telling that the card is too powerfull, in giving us perct setup, sorry but that's not realistic.
Last edit: 21 Jan 2016 21:46 by zkopiosy.

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21 Jan 2016 22:30 #75123 by Vlad

elotar wrote: Also, is it the same person saying that we are not fighting with the root of the problem and that two of his decks has became unplayable without A?


Hmmm...
Did I write almost throw away ? Indeed !!!
So please read before attacking me ;)

Btw I wasn't defending PTO...

As judges in other ccg say : RTFC !!!

;)

Pentex Board of Directors

Prince of Oye Plage
Alastor Grand Nord

:gang:

:ani: :cel: :chi: :FOR: :PRO:

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21 Jan 2016 22:53 - 21 Jan 2016 22:55 #75124 by jamesatzephyr

zkopiosy wrote: Of course it's fun, I didn't say it's not, but many players like me, spend less time to build/play vtes now, than by the past.
Thoses players, are the ones that don't want to spend time rebuild and balance theirs decks.


You're not really being consistent here.

In this post , you propose a card that you think would fix the problem, along the lines of "During your turn, the first mpa you use make you gain one pool, the additional ones cost 2 pools." Whether it would or not is a different discussion - but let's assume it does fix the problem.

If the existence of such a card would fix MMPA decks, you would still have to rebuild and rebalance your deck. You would need to think about extra pool gain, for the turns where you use three or four MPAs (costing 3 or 5 pool). You would need to think about how you cope with card flow, when you choose only to play one master, not the three you would have done otherwise. You would need to think about how to go about drawing/recycling Not To Be early on, to stop the card screwing you up, and tweaking your deck to include Not To Be in the first place. (Currently, not many do.) You might consider whether Uncoiling or Fourth Cycle can help you - both have considerable drawbacks for a deck relying on Anthelios, and with Fourth Cycle there's no guarantee a newly printed event would be a Gehenna event. The proposed effect feels maybe more like a Government effect to me, but you could probably design it all sorts of ways.

Alternatively, you might consider tweaking the deck to make it easier to oust cross-table, or back-oust your predator, to get the card off the table double-quick. Nana decks often have some decent bleed options - Deep Song, Presence, sometimes Brutal Influence - but very little direct pool damage against a cross-table deck, in the way that a political deck or Dementation deck might have. Deep Song lets you rush, obviously, so maybe you want to think about tweaking your combat package to make that a little more reliable - some such decks have lots of combat, others less so.

Analogous - but obviously slightly different - considerations would apply if you're going the Anson route. Plentiful Auspex and blocking tech gives you a different way of possibly screwing up someone playing this new card, and you might be going with Eagle's Sight to screw up your grand-prey or grand-predator when he's unhelpful enough to play this.

So....

If the card you propose fixes the problem, you're going to have rebuild and rebalance your deck. It you don't have to rebuild and rebalance your deck, it probably doesn't fix the problem.
Last edit: 21 Jan 2016 22:55 by jamesatzephyr.

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21 Jan 2016 22:58 #75125 by BenPeal

cordovader wrote: So, in my logic the only reasonable explanation is: the Design Team has it's vision about the game, the Rules Team bans the card, end of the story.


There appears to be a persistent misperception about the roles of the Design Team and the Rules Team.

The Design Team designs cards and Storyline events.

The Rules Team interprets the rules of the game, issues rulings, updates and improves the rules of the game, and updates and improves the rules for sanctioned tournaments (which includes the banned list).

A typical interaction between the Design Team and the Rules Team looks something like this:

Design Team: We have this idea for a card that does X, but also like Y.

Rules Team: If your design intent is A, then this is the wording to use. If your design intent is B, use this wording instead.

Playtest Team: AHAHAHAHA!!!! *smashsmashstompsmash*

Design Team: :(

An interaction between the Design Team and the Rules Team is never like this:

Design Team: We have a glorious vision for V:TES, but Dartmoor: England must be banned to clear a path
for its genius.

Rules Team: As you wish.

Except for this one time when it was like this:

Design Team: We would like to napalm every Quietus card from Final Nights.

Rules Team: No.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, D-dennis, PetriWessman, brettscho, Lenny

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21 Jan 2016 23:28 - 21 Jan 2016 23:32 #75127 by GreyB

zkopiosy wrote: GreyB,

do you realize that it's not realistic to do all that in the same game? And i do not say that for playing a khazar animalism mmpa rush deck :)

You forgot that if you predator has a wash, he also can wash you the picked master every turn?

When you play anthelios, your deck is built with a lot masters in only one examplary, so you aren't always in a situation where your pentex or you archon is in the discard pile... Or maybe you haven't got your anthelios, or maybe no master in hand.....

If you hope on your recursive archon to deal with heavy bleeder as predator, you will be dead before got the setup in place, and the bleeder will stp to bleed you for 4 or more :)

You are telling that the card is too powerfull, in giving us perct setup, sorry but that's not realistic.

.

Basics:
Liquidation, ashur's and anthelios, the cards you need will be in the discard pile in no time, you can cycle like crazy and fish back what you need... Add vamps like anson and/or Parthenon so you can play multiple masters obviously!

Add flavour:
- Khazars+jake or animalism rush or whatever, pick one (not all obviously ;)), the basics empowers nearly every archetype.

Don't worry about:
- Wash/Sudden Reversal, other players usually don't play a bunch of masters they can discard easily nor do they have loads of wash's stacked in their deck, so big chance they haven't drawn one yet.
- Not To Be, Fourth Cycle or Uncoiling, chances are you will not see one played 3 out of 4 games if even that and if it does, take your loss and move on to the next game.

Man... Banning Anthelios really breaks that up, a real shame :( Still possible though but harder since other players can now block card recovery, but seems less fun since now your vamps must work on card recycling + oust strategy instead of just oust strategy.

I think people can still tweak their decks a bit to make it work, just a teensy bit less powerful. Just play some table politics and you're golden I think ;)

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
Last edit: 21 Jan 2016 23:32 by GreyB. Reason: Bit more explanation

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22 Jan 2016 05:10 - 22 Jan 2016 05:13 #75162 by ReverendRevolver

elotar wrote: O, we still got people, defending PtO!


I've waited for this time to also demand than Madness of the bard and Cunctator Motion be unbanned.

Root is mmpa sources. Not Lilith's, anthelios, Ashurs, liquidation, DI, Pentex, TGB, Golconda, Mythic Form ;) , Aksynia or Alexandra. Here's what we do:
1.get printed.
2. Play test and issue erratta on reprints.
3. Ban eyes of the dead. (Why not?)
Last edit: 22 Jan 2016 05:13 by ReverendRevolver.
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