exclamation-circle Cards Bans 2016 (Anthelios, the red star, Seeds of corruption,Temptation of Greater Power)

22 Jan 2016 08:59 #75172 by Vlad

PetriWessman wrote:

Lönkka wrote: Of course when you ban some cards some people will be annoyed by it.

Luckily VTES has very few (around ten or so) banned cards so this isn't really a big deal. If you think about the big picture.


This. The game has a gazillion cards (gazillion defined as multiple thousands).

Someone said "I'm not really playing anymore and only own a few decks, and now some of those don't work anymore". In a way I understand that, but look: you're saying that the game should not be improved because of you (who doesn't even play anymore). That doesn't work.
.


Either you don't understand what I wrote or you are transforming it to suit your goal !!!

So I repeat : I kept 5 decks (2 of them I will have to modify) but I still play 3 to 5 tournaments per year. And I even taught my daughter ;)

FYI I play for more than 20 years and organize tournaments for 15 years. I created two different playgroups and was a part of the official French vekn association. So I don't think I deserve lessons or lectures from anyone...

I never said I'll quit but some players on our forum are discouraged and either will stop or simply take a break... You say you won't miss them ?!?

Sorry to tell you that is a stupid statement (not you, but your sentence) because we don't have new players (because of proxies... Bla-bla-bla...) and now some old players are leaving...
As Stone said : when you'll be playing BIG tournaments with 15 players, remember your arrogance !!!

Pentex Board of Directors

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Alastor Grand Nord

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22 Jan 2016 10:10 - 22 Jan 2016 10:14 #75174 by jamesatzephyr

Vlad wrote: I never said I'll quit but some players on our forum are discouraged and either will stop or simply take a break... You say you won't miss them ?!?


Thing is, leave aside bans. Leave aside power cards / possibly broken cards.

If V:EKN (or DriveThruCCG, or Paradox, or whoever) create new expansions, they can perturb the game a lot. The fearsome new Trophy Hunter tech in the 2017 expansion "Mistaken Identity"(*) provides a whole range of fearsome opponents, and a couple of the abilities provided by new Trophy cards really punch a hole in your deck. Trophy: Snitch really undermines some bleed decks, by giving the bearer a new, solid option against stealth-bleed or weenie bleed or something like that. Trophy: Unity is a once-per-game Trophy that can only be awarded to a vampire who already had at least three Trophies at the start of this turn, and when awarded it allows that vampire's controller to remove an Event from the game.

Turns out that one of the players in your playgroup loves the new tech, and is really pumped he has a hot new combat deck he can play. And so now consider the player whose favourite deck is their DEM weenie deck with a bunch of Gehenna Event tech thrown in to screw people - which is now somewhat perturbed by Trophy: Snitch undermining weenie bleed, and Trophy: Unity meaning that the Trophy Hunter can take out that nasty "Fall of the Camarilla" event the DEM weenie deck loves playing.

End result: the DEM weenie deck player is probably upset. Do they think about taking a pause?

Thing is, this is pretty much inevitable in a CCG that prints new cards. New cards can and often will seriously undermine the assumptions your deck used to be able to make - perhaps you could seriously mess around with bleed bounce with some carefully chosen cards, maybe an Orb of Ulain, maybe a Perfect Clarity or three, maybe Libertas, maybe Narrow Minds, maybe some other cards. And then in the 2018 expansion "Prophecies of Midnight", something happens such as one or more of:
  • a decently balanced but very playable bleed bounce card is given to a discipline that is not Dominate, making some of the tech relying on anti-Dominate a little more tricky
  • a bleed defence card that is an Out of Turn Trifle is printed, and while it's maybe not as good as bounce, your deck is going to be annoyed by a prey / successive preys who can play several of these a game
  • an Anarch Convert like vampire is printed who can be used to trigger bleed bounce(**), which circumvents the "minion card" requirement on Narrow Minds

Thinking about it, your deck won't be so good afterwards. So, you build and adapt and tweak and rebalance.

If the goal is that existing decks cannot be perturbed lest people decide they want to do something else, you basically can't print expansions with decent cards in them that have an impact on the game - because that impact on the game will perturb existing decks, exploiting their holes, undermining their assumptions, changing the dynamics of the playgroup so now you don't see many political decks so those 6 Delaying Tactics are dead weight etc.


(*) For the avoidance of doubt, this is all clearly hypothetical, and the cards are made up.

(**) "Stoolie. Independent. Do not bring Stoolie into play during your influence phase, regardless of counters. If you are being bled and Stoolie has counters at least equal to his capacity on him (in the uncontrolled region), reveal Stoolie to all players and remove him from the game. Choose another Methuselah other than the controller of the acting minion. The acting minion is now bleeding that Methuselah." Bonus fun - leave a vampire with X pool on in your uncontrolled region, to make people think you have a Stoolie, even if it's just your duplicate copy of Vidal Jarbeaux that you can't bring out.
Last edit: 22 Jan 2016 10:14 by jamesatzephyr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: brettscho

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22 Jan 2016 10:16 - 22 Jan 2016 10:18 #75175 by Vlad
Except that you're talking about new strategies coming from new cards which is good to keep the game alive (or undead :-p )

Banned cards kill strategies...

But I still wait for the explanations

Pentex Board of Directors

Prince of Oye Plage
Alastor Grand Nord

:gang:

:ani: :cel: :chi: :FOR: :PRO:
Last edit: 22 Jan 2016 10:18 by Vlad.

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22 Jan 2016 10:29 - 22 Jan 2016 10:29 #75177 by zkopiosy

jamesatzephyr wrote:
So....

If the card you propose fixes the problem, you're going to have rebuild and rebalance your deck. It you don't have to rebuild and rebalance your deck, it probably doesn't fix the problem.


Sorry, but I will go to tournaments with the same exactly same deck, and I will lose maybe, but I wil be here.

If Anthelios is ban, I won't come anymore.
Last edit: 22 Jan 2016 10:29 by zkopiosy.

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22 Jan 2016 13:30 #75179 by GreyB

Vlad wrote: Except that you're talking about new strategies coming from new cards which is good to keep the game alive (or undead :-p )

Banned cards kill strategies...

But I still wait for the explanations


Explanations where already given, perhaps they should move them to a sticky.

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength

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22 Jan 2016 13:39 #75180 by cordovader

GreyB wrote:

Vlad wrote: Except that you're talking about new strategies coming from new cards which is good to keep the game alive (or undead :-p )

Banned cards kill strategies...

But I still wait for the explanations


Explanations where already given, perhaps they should move them to a sticky.


Maybe people do not agree with the explanations that were given.

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