SCE

LivesByProxy wrote:

elotar wrote:

self wrote:

It would be very cool of you if you could not use it, and I, for one would greatly appreciate it.[/i]

Sorry, meant no offense to anybody, not involved with SCE design.

I'm less concerned with the use of the word, and more with the assumptions behind it. Everyone involved with this game should be assumed to trying to make the best choices possible. No one's judgement is perfect, but we should give the designers/developers the benefit of the doubt - assume they're making calls with good intentions in mind.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

The problem lies not in the initial mistakes, even if they look extremely stupid to me, it lies in a way the problem was handled later.

It was mentioned, that in jihad -> VtES (extremely stupid idea as well) transition there was an effort to make combat "better", but they again do not touch fundamental problem.

And it happening again and again for 24 years, and as we see even mentioning of it explodes community into nerd rage.

Will see, how long it will take.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Yeah, see, the original poster's main point is that whoever was originally involved mismanaged the game, and that's why it's not popular.

I understand that math, history and game design are hard topics, but reading! It should be taught in junior school! Where have you seen anything about popularity in this thread?

I guess popularity isn't the right word. I assumed this is what you meant by the "world is suffering" stuff you wrote earlier. If I understand you, you're saying the world is suffering because the game was mismanaged and released in an inferior form. My point is, It's not that the game was mismanaged, it's that it's just inferior on its own merits. Hence why it's a niche game and no amount of "fixing problems" is going to change that.

Anyway, it's really hard to understand what your point is. I could criticize your writing ability as much as you criticized my ability to read your post.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

"world is suffering"

Dude

TwoRazorReign wrote:

it's really hard to understand what your point is

My English is not so good, so I'm totally fine, if somebody do not understand me. But it seems very strange why than those who do not understand what I've written is trying to argue with me.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

My point is, It's not that the game was mismanaged, it's that it's just inferior on its own merits. Hence why it's a niche game and no amount of "fixing problems" is going to change that.

I'm not so sure. I wonder just how much popularity and appeal VTES could garner if it were presented differently. Better art, better graphics, cleaner rules, etc.

There are several instances in modern history where the idea of a product had to be sold to the people first. Deodorant was one that comes to mind. As I recall, the sellers of the product didn't have any buyers, so they went on a campaign to raise awareness about how awesome their product was (ads that convinced women that they didn't want to smell bad for their men), and it worked. It wasn't just them advertising the product existed, it was pointing out a need that they created in the minds of the masses.

Obviously this isn't a direct parallel, but WW is trying to revive Vampire, and get Vampire Netflix shows and video games and movies and whatnot. VTES would benefit from that, but I have to wonder if Vampire (like VTES) suffers from too much baggage that makes it hard to consume, on top of presenting itself... not ideally.

Vampires where super cool back in the 80s, 90s, and just recently with the Twilight/TrueBlood/VampDiaries crowd. People have pointed out how close WW was to getting their TV show about Vampire back in the 90s but it had low ratings in part because of the way it presented itself. It presented itself as a crime drama focused on middle-aged men. Later that year, Buffy the Vampire Slayer came out to huge success proving their was appeal but the focus was on a young girl and her life. WW should, IMO, focus on appealing to young women. As it stands, it looks like they're trying to appeal to 40 year-olds with nostalgia goggles.

I know RPGs aren't super popular to young women, but imagine if the opener to VTM5E was the in-universe account of a young woman discovering the world of vampires and falling deeper into that life and so-on, rather than the 1st hand accounts of middle-aged men cursing and trying to hard to be edgy (e.g. VTM and VTR opening short-fictions.)

LivesByProxy wrote:

I'm not so sure. I wonder just how much popularity and appeal VTES could garner if it were presented differently. Better art, better graphics, cleaner rules, etc.

...

I know RPGs aren't super popular to young women, but imagine if the opener to VTM5E was the in-universe account of a young woman discovering the world of vampires and falling deeper into that life and so-on, rather than the 1st hand accounts of middle-aged men cursing and trying to hard to be edgy (e.g. VTM and VTR opening short-fictions.)

In Russia VTM is extremely popular among young women, many of whom show interest it VtES also. Actually most of people I know who are interested in any forms of gaming have shown interest in VtES - there are elements to like for anybody, the core of the game is brilliant and many aspects are quite clever and unique.

But then they meet all this mess, which are the rules of this game, and their enthusiasm disappears.