file [Fairyworld] Examining combat cards and strategies and how they should work

19 Jul 2018 19:38 #89071 by Lech
Current Carrion Crows
:combat:
Only usable before range is chosen.
:ani: The opposing minion takes 1R damage each round of combat during strike resolution. A vampire can play only one Carrion Crows each combat.
:ANI: As above, but for 2R damage.

Main problem with Carrion crow is how uninteractive it (and all cards that it's based upon it) is.

Fairytales Carrion Crows
:combat: :retainer:
Start of round. Animal with 1 life. Limited (1)
:ani: The opposing minion takes 1R damage each round of combat during strike resolution. Burn after combat.
:ANI: As above, but for 2R damage.

This way, you can kill carrion crows with first strike/target retainer to avoid damage or get rid of it in next round. Limited (1) means minion may have only one, it's simpler than A vampire may have only one Carrion Crows but easier.


Current Immortal Grapple
:combat:
Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen. Grapple.
:pot: Strikes that are not hand strikes may not be used this round (by either combatant). A vampire may play only one Immortal Grapple each round.
:POT: As above, with an optional press. If another round of combat occurs, that round is at close range; skip the determine range step for that round.

Main problem with it is that it doesn't offer counter mechanic out of the box for decks it shouldn't hose (other combat decks).

Fairytales Immortal Grapple
:combat:
Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen. Grapple.
:pot: Strikes that are not hand strikes may not be used this round (by either combatant), opposing vampire may discard two combat cards to cancel it.
:POT: As above, with an optional press to continue. If another round occurs, opposing minion must discard a combat card or skip determine range this round.


Current Majesty
:combat:
1 Blood
:pre: Strike: combat ends.
:PRE: As above, and this vampire untaps before combat ends.

Main problem lies in surprise value of most (but not all!) combat ends. Majesty is something that should be used before violence is used, best step to describe it is before range is determined step.

Fairytales Majesty
:combat:
1 Blood
:pre: Strike: dodge.
:PRE: Start of round. Unlock this vampire and this round the vampire may Strike: Combat Ends.

This way, it's telegraphed so it don't hose combat card heavy decks and still get you out of trouble.

Current .44 Magnum
:action: :equipment:
2 Pool
Weapon, gun.
2R damage each strike, with an optional maneuver each combat.

.44 Magnum
:action: :equipment:
2 Pool
Weapon, gun.
2R damage each strike. If the bearer blocks an action or is unblocked, he or she may set the initial range for the first round of the resulting combat to long (bearer's initial strike that round must be with this weapon).

This better portrays faster initiation of combat with shooting, don't work with psyche and isn't usable to go to close range against long range decks.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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20 Jul 2018 01:09 #89086 by Ratadin
The fix to the immortal grapple means that potence would have no reason to exists besides maybe using heroic might (but not preternatural).

Majesty isn't the only "problematic" CE, so you should also modify Earth Meld, and people would, if this change were really deal breaking, play other unmodified combat ends, making fortitude or celerity (for multi-acting) even more powerful.

Still, I don't see a real problem in combat, but in balance, and balance isn't solved by nerfing very popular things, but either adding new cards or nerfing auxiliar things (like nerfing anthelios instead of nerfing tablet+liquidation).

Now, what is exactly what you feel is wrong with combat?

Oh, and BTW, if you want to fix combat by nerfing cards, you missed the biggest, grossest offender of all: Target Vitals.

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20 Jul 2018 06:15 #89096 by beslin igor
I only like idea to change text of Carrion Crows.
i think is important to Immortal Grapple will continue to be a strong card because this proposal will weaken combat decks that are otherwise slow in winning points.
about Majesty whu change text on this way,you have another card in presence whu give you strike dodge(inferior) and CE(superior)

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20 Jul 2018 08:21 #89097 by Whisker
Umm, you want to nerf majesty by making it even more powerfull?
Yes, opponent can now see it coming and mayby does not need to waste combat cards, but what about using it offensively? I would so love your new version in any brujah deck, unlock at start of round and then use whatever combat package you were going to use anyway to pummel the hapless opponent to torpor, yes please.

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20 Jul 2018 13:05 #89107 by Lech

Ratadin wrote: The fix to the immortal grapple means that potence would have no reason to exists besides maybe using heroic might (but not preternatural).


Because ? How it even affect potence combat against its most problematic matchups? I'd say it's making potence even more powerful against s:ce low combat module than before.

Ratadin wrote: Majesty isn't the only "problematic" CE, so you should also modify Earth Meld, and people would, if this change were really deal breaking, play other unmodified combat ends, making fortitude or celerity (for multi-acting) even more powerful.


It's just showcase about how s:ce in general should work, for example celerity s:ce could have some condition (like get two maneuvers, if range is long you may end combat before strikes). It's to give more space to combat decks while not neutering s:ce as combat defense.

Ratadin wrote: Still, I don't see a real problem in combat, but in balance, and balance isn't solved by nerfing very popular things, but either adding new cards or nerfing auxiliar things (like nerfing anthelios instead of nerfing tablet+liquidation).


No, the problem lies in how out of touch with rest of combat s:ce is. You can't fix it with cards "cancel enemy strike", "start new combat", "continue combat", "enemy can't s:ce", "create ultra powerful card that is played if enemy didn't played s:ce". Even if devs already try it instead of neutering s:ce instead.

Ratadin wrote: Now, what is exactly what you feel is wrong with combat?


S:ce.

Ratadin wrote: Oh, and BTW, if you want to fix combat by nerfing cards, you missed the biggest, grossest offender of all: Target Vitals.


T:V is very good, so is WWS.Yes, in ideal world those shouldn't exist.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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20 Jul 2018 13:09 #89108 by Lech

Whisker wrote: Umm, you want to nerf majesty by making it even more powerfull?
Yes, opponent can now see it coming and mayby does not need to waste combat cards, but what about using it offensively? I would so love your new version in any brujah deck, unlock at start of round and then use whatever combat package you were going to use anyway to pummel the hapless opponent to torpor, yes please.


Well, the wording could be better as "if blocking or blocked, untap" to not give unconditional untap. Still decent in Brujah.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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