[Fairyworld] Examining combat cards and strategies and how they should work

Mewcat wrote:

**stuff about stealth**

Personally, I would like to see stronger, but more conditional +stealth. So rather than generic "+1 stealth", it could be "+2 stealth vs political actions" or "+3 stealth vs older vampires". By the same token, I think conditional +intercept and conditional +bleed should be more present. I think it adds flavor and it distinguishes cards.

Mewcat wrote:

To make things even more fun and interactive the action itself has a flavor: can be grape, apple, or banana.

I understand you may be saying this sarcastically, but I would actually take a page from Justin Achilli's Prince's Gambit AND reference VTM by having actions be Physical, Mental, or Social. Then re-contextualize "combat" as "the struggle" / "struggles". It makes no sense for vampires to be literally fist-fighting or shooting guns at each other all the time, but it does make sense for them to fight and play mind-games and manipulate the opinions of their peers / damage the reputations of others.

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Also, in general, isn't the idea behind combat that your damage potential is so threatening that it's better to just let your actions happen? But the problem with combat is that it's too easy to avoid damage, no? You can maneuver to long, dodge, prevent, and S:CE. And of all of these, S:CE is the best, because the key S:CE cards all do double duty: Majesty and Earth Meld untap your acting vampire, and Form of Mist lets you continue the action. Those are really efficient cards. The other strong combat cards are those that let you avoid damage while still dealing damage (Aid From Bats and .44 Magnum come to mind. I also like Thrown Gate in Potence.)

Mewcat wrote:

What powers are you using to extract this data? I just see a list of decks.

The power of Excel!!! ...and several hours of sanitizing and formatting data

Check the 'TWDA Analisys' thread I started a few days ago, I posted an Excel file with all of the TWDA cards in a structured format.

Maybe I will look at the file on my computer some day. So majesty is the most popular combat card? I'm not sure that is an ideal situation. I guess crappy combat fits with vtes as co marketing for the rpg that also has crappy combat.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

Mewcat wrote:

Ratadin wrote:

Now, what is exactly what you feel is wrong with combat.

...It is overly complex and card intensive to implement in addition to underwhelming even if successful.

I mean, combat is a very tricky mechanic because VTES is a multiplayer game. If one knows what they are doing, combat can certainly contribute to the winning strategy in a deck. But if played a different way, it can do nothing other than make someone else lose.

My outsider opinion is that VTES has some "unwritten rules" that ensure responsible play. I have read about "responsible bleeding," or not just bleeding out your grand prey when bounced. I feel like a similar concept exists for combat, where players are seen as irresponsible if they don't play combat "the right way." These unwritten rules contribute to the social part of VTES that a lot of people find charming.

I was thinking about this last bit and believe it has merit. It seems that there is some at large agreement that the correct way to Play is just lunge bleed and bounce around like stooges. Torping vamps limits ones ability to participate in this ecstatic ritual. Watching players lose a vamp or 2 and just sit there forcing a combat deck to bleed through a mountain of pool seems punitive. You wouldn't do it if you were trying to win.

Mewcat wrote:

Let us redesign stealth to resemble combat. We now break stealth into 3 categories: high stealth where you jump on building, low stealth where you go in sewers and subways, and side stealth that is more about disguises and sneaking. If you play side stealth and I play high intercept you get -1 stealth from the card but if you play low stealth and I play high intercept you get +1. This is obvious because I have a birds eye view from my high perch but cant see you in the sewers.

Now if you play 3 side stealth cards that is like a matching set in risk and all your stealth is doubled BUT I can counter it with 1 side, 1 high, and 1 low - I am monitoring everything!

To make things even more fun and interactive the action itself has a flavor: can be grape, apple, or banana. If my intercept card has the appropriate color your action ends unsuccessfully. You do have the option of changing the action flavor with some stealth cards and this is key to the meta game. Skilled players will realize that all the good stealth cards are grape and play heavy grape intercept.

Hopefully we can get this added in the next set.

Erm, let's not.

For longest of time it has been said that the game is already way too complicated which means extremely high learning curve for new players.

Adding more complexcity ain'y going to help any!