file [Fairyworld] Examining combat cards and strategies and how they should work

25 Jul 2018 14:07 #89321 by skimflux

looked at the post about twd analysis. the only combat cards that were listed as 'important' cards are majesty and taste of vitae.

That doesn't mean much. Majesty appears in high quantities because S:CE are not very diverse, and Majesty is one of the two or three S:CE that are widely played because Presence is the most common discipline for that matter (compared to Protean for instance). Other Presence S:CE are not common at all.
Combat cards, on the other hand, are very diverse. For instance I'll play 6 Torn Signpost, 4 Blur, 7 Immortal Grapple...
Even though I play 17 combat cards, none of them will show up in greater quantities than 8 or 10 Majesty.
As a final note, you can play SCE un plenty of different decks (stealth bleed, vote, Shattering Crescendo, Ally decks...) whereas offensive combat cards tend to appear only in combat decks (in fewer numbers that the cumulated list I gave)


The ranking I posted is ordered by decks featuring the card - it is not ordered by number of copies played (but I have also done that ranking and Majesty becomes far more dominant by that measure, for the reasons you mentioned).

Majesty is present in over 20% of all winning decks featuring any combat card at all. Overall, 3 out of the most common 5 strike cards are S:CE (the other two are Canine Horde and Aid From Bats).

The most common 'aggressive' combat cards are Carrion Crows and Target Vitals - these are rarely seen together, yet less decks feature either one of them than Majesty alone.

TLDR: Majesty is very good.

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25 Jul 2018 14:28 #89322 by Ankha
Then again, any deck that doesn't focus on combat won't be playing an offensive combat module. So the stats are just saying "there are more deck that don't focus on combat than deck that focus on combat", not that Majesty is broken/unbalanced/whatever.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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25 Jul 2018 14:37 #89323 by Mewcat
What would it take to convince you that majesty is broken/unbalance/whatever?

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25 Jul 2018 14:40 #89324 by Ratadin
I feel more relevant to the conversation pointing out that the most commong "aggresive" cards are as you say, TV and Carrion Crows. The latter just means that in the late run, Animalism has become more efficient than Potence, making it almost obsolete, although I think this is more related with Deep Song giving you both combat and ousting capabilities than by Animals combat itself, although again, Carrion Crows is way better than Torn Signpost (unless you are playing celerity).

For TV... Yeah, it is quite an oppresive card, and one of the only cards that I think should be considered for nerfing. Despite what we think of either IG or SCE, those two are cards that both require a discipline and are real tool that allow you to build an strategy and try to counter something. TV just give you as much damage as any combat discipline, for free, no requisites, no anything. Just freaking damage.

When I played a palla grande deck full of embraces and we just decided to add 6-7 TV to the mix and saw those nobodies wreacking havoc now and then, I felt kind of disgusted. Not saying that it was really competitive or anything, just that I was pretty awful to play against.

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25 Jul 2018 14:44 - 25 Jul 2018 14:51 #89325 by Ankha

What would it take to convince you that majesty is broken/unbalance/whatever?

Convincing arguments, not logical fallacies. The figures are interesting, but the interpretations I have read are not following logic. For instance, if there are more Ancilla Empowerments than Anarchist Uprising in the TWDA, it doesn't mean that AE is stronger than AU (and we know that because they have exactly the same cardtext). And if there are more KRC than Ancilla, it doesn't mean KRC is stronger than Ancilla.

Personally, I think that on the long term, S:CE loses against combat because as long as you play S:CE, the opposing minion takes no damage, and once you don't have any left, you take a serious beating; But it depends on how many S:CE you play, if your opponent plays more combat than you or permanent combat cards (such as a gun), and how long the game lasts.

Also, if you build a combat decks, you should be able to handle the opposing minion's combat (whether he plays combat ends, or combat himself): if you go for war, be prepared for war.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 25 Jul 2018 14:51 by Ankha.

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25 Jul 2018 14:47 - 25 Jul 2018 14:49 #89326 by Mewcat
Construct the beginning of what would be a convincing argument to you, please. We cant have a meaningful discussion without some agreed upon logical structure. Each person having their own facts or calling 'fake news' is amusing but little else.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2018 14:49 by Mewcat.

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