file Trap rewording

09 Aug 2018 13:39 #89838 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Trap rewording

What about (changes underlined):

Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.
Put this card in play with 3 counters. At the start of the press step of each round this combat, this Trap automatically burns 1 counter from itself to provide 1 environmental press to continue combat (either combatant can press to end combat). Each time a card is played this combat, put back all counters that were burned this way on this card. Burn this card at the end of combat.


What is an environmental press? A press without a source or recipient? Without explanation, this is likely not a good idea to add to the card. I would strongly suggest defining the concept first, then add it to cards.

As for "put back all counters that were burned this way on this card," this could potentially be interpreted as put back more than 3 counters, if more than 3 were burned during the combat (ie, people will wonder if the number of counters burned are cumulative). Hence why I was suggesting "not to exceed 3 counters."

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09 Aug 2018 14:01 #89839 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Trap rewording

What is an environmental press? A press without a source or recipient? Without explanation, this is likely not a good idea to add to the card. I would strongly suggest defining the concept first, then add it to cards.

It is already defined for damage in the rulings: "Damage from other effects is considered "environmental," and has no particular source."

It could be easily extended to the press provided by the Trap (a press not provided by either combatant).

As for "put back all counters that were burned this way on this card," this could potentially be interpreted as put back more than 3 counters, if more than 3 were burned during the combat (ie, people will wonder if the number of counters burned are cumulative). Hence why I was suggesting "not to exceed 3 counters."

No it can't. You don't create counters, you burn them and put them back.

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09 Aug 2018 14:02 #89840 by self biased
Replied by self biased on topic Trap rewording

.

What about (changes underlined):

Only usable before range is determined during the first round of combat.
Put this card in play with 3 counters. At the start of the press step of each round this combat, this Trap automatically burns 1 counter from itself to provide 1 environmental press to continue combat (either combatant can press to end combat). Each time a card is played this combat, put back all counters that were burned this way on this card. Burn this card at the end of combat.

I changed "During the press step" to "At the start of the press step" to indicate that the automatic press happens before players can press (which required a ruling before).


this is better than the previous versions.

I think it comes down to the fact that while trap counting down certainly provides a much better visualization of how many more rounds are getting presses, doing so requires wording and templating that makes how trap resets not as clear as we'd probably like.

A template that counts up similar to the one i suggested doesn't do a great job helping visualize how many presses are remaining, but is easier to word and template the reset condition. Honestly its a toss up. I prefer the clearer wording over the visualization, but mileage may vary for others.

To that end, perhaps this is a line can be used?


"If a minion plays a card, restore trap to its original three counters."
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09 Aug 2018 14:23 - 09 Aug 2018 14:24 #89843 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Trap rewording

What is an environmental press? A press without a source or recipient? Without explanation, this is likely not a good idea to add to the card. I would strongly suggest defining the concept first, then add it to cards.

It is already defined for damage in the rulings: "Damage from other effects is considered "environmental," and has no particular source."

It could be easily extended to the press provided by the Trap (a press not provided by either combatant).


Damage is not the same thing as a press. It's a new concept that is not really needed. I would avoid it unless adding a new definition of "environmental" as it relates to presses somewhere.

As for "put back all counters that were burned this way on this card," this could potentially be interpreted as put back more than 3 counters, if more than 3 were burned during the combat (ie, people will wonder if the number of counters burned are cumulative). Hence why I was suggesting "not to exceed 3 counters."

No it can't. You don't create counters, you burn them and put them back.


I'm not disputing that. I'm saying your proposed re-wording is confusing to those who are not quite clear on the concept of "you don't create counters."

"If a minion plays a card, restore trap to its original three counters."


This works. I would add "(if needed)" just in case. When a card says to do something, and you can't do it, that's when I see a lot of new players pause and think "oh, what happens now?"
Last edit: 09 Aug 2018 14:24 by TwoRazorReign.

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09 Aug 2018 15:07 #89844 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Trap rewording

I like the idea of environmental press.

It may be good to note somewhere that environmental presses can stack, even though they may not all be used. This is different from the way minion-based presses work. Two Traps provide two environmental presses to continue each round.

To be honest, I think this opens up good design space for other environmental based combat effects that aren't damage.
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09 Aug 2018 15:25 #89845 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Trap rewording

"If a minion plays a card, restore trap to its original three counters."


This works. I would add "(if needed)" just in case. When a card says to do something, and you can't do it, that's when I see a lot of new players pause and think "oh, what happens now?"

Yeah, but it would be the first time such a wording is used... I need to think about it.

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