lightbulb Of Decks and Tier Lists

09 Jan 2019 14:28 #92722 by DJHedgehog
Yesterday, an interesting discussion occurred surrounding the ranking of decks for a tier list. It seems like everyone has their own idea of what decks are "the best". This is irregular as far as card games go and probably has a lot to do with the rock-paper-scissors nature of the game and the random 5 player aspect.

While the general consensus is that building a tier list is a highly subjective endeavor, I think it will be a great way to see how the community perceives decks in a competitive format.

Because of the subjective nature of this process, please avoid scrutinizing the selections of your fellow methusalas.

Here are some ideas for "tier ratings" just to give us a way to homogenize the discussion.

Tier 0: Best decks in the game due to potential balance issues. These decks would be the first reviewed for nerfs or balance changes.

Tier 1: The best decks out there based on the consistency of performance.

Tier 2: Less consistent but still viable, can win a table solidly but has some flaws.

Tier 3: Inconsistent decks that can win tables under the right circumstances.

Tier 4: Inconsistent decks that struggle to compete and have major flaws.

Tier 5: Total jank with little chance of winning.

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09 Jan 2019 15:17 #92723 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists

DJHedgehog wrote: Yesterday, an interesting discussion occurred surrounding the ranking of decks for a tier list. It seems like everyone has their own idea of what decks are "the best". This is irregular as far as card games go and probably has a lot to do with the rock-paper-scissors nature of the game and the random 5 player aspect.


It can also be interpreted that there is no real tier list to speak of, when everyone has greatly varying opinions on what the tier list is.

'Lower tier' decks still have a pretty good chance of ousting a 'higher tier' deck, and anybody can be brought down by luck of the draw.

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker

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09 Jan 2019 15:39 #92726 by DJHedgehog
Replied by DJHedgehog on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists
My contention is that there are decks that perform more consistently or that can handle more of the decks found at a competitive level.

Maybe a tier list is a little rigid, but we can get an idea of what players perceive as "high tier" decks and have some discussion around that.

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11 Jan 2019 15:20 #92774 by ReverendRevolver

DJHedgehog wrote: My contention is that there are decks that perform more consistently or that can handle more of the decks found at a competitive level.

Maybe a tier list is a little rigid, but we can get an idea of what players perceive as "high tier" decks and have some discussion around that.


People will get caught up in "X>Y" nonsense, but you are correct;
There are stupid too good decks(MMPA GIRLS) there are solid good decks (EuroBru) and there are decks that sweep tables like crazy if they go off right (Turbo Nergal, Diary, legacy of Pander).

The issue in creating a cohesive list is everyone will throw thier qualitative analysis in on what should be a quantitative discussion; math says legionnaires are between the top and bottom of what I just mentioned. Future math could put it solidly in one category. The difference between let's say imbued table poison and Girls is mainly in the fact that a Table snuffs imbued because the metagame globally evolved to do so, whereas girls setup makes it not as possible to do anything about it.

But:

You are correct

Its irritating people argue about it

And

The best I can think up is just listing viable, likely to succeed decks and roll with it somehow.

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12 Jan 2019 12:56 #92793 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists
Well, some strategies are just inconsistent (combat, blocking, voting) and some effects are so fundamental to the game they are almost mandatory (bounce, bloat). Lastly we can look at things that are problem level like multiple master phases, unmasking, parity shift, whatever else. You could rank things off that maybe.

It's true that game results can be random but you can see what drives the game independent of results.

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14 Jan 2019 15:15 #92854 by LivesByProxy
Seems like a cool discussion, shame no one is participating.

Tier 0: Harbingers Legionnaire, AAA, Girls?

Tier 1: Ventrue Lawfirm, !Ventrue Grinder, Kindred Spirits S&B, Tzimisce Smiling Jack Wall, Nocturn Swarm?

Tier 2: Ahrimanes, Salubri/!Salubri Combat, Daughters Choir, Weenie Dominate, Weenie Animalism?

Tier 3: Weenie Politics? Weenie Presence?

Tier 4: !Nosferatu, !Gangrel?

Tier 5: Samedi Politics :silly:

Alas, I don't have that much experience, and my playgroup is small and our meetings scarce, and most of us seem to play the underdog clans. :)

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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