file Why celerity is such a bad discipline ?

25 Sep 2019 11:16 #97132 by Mewcat

Bloodartist wrote:

Lech wrote: It "works" solely in cel gun combat. Most regular celerity cards are worse than anarch inferior celerity versions.

Also, if cel guns are preventing better celerity, can we just allow 1 or less cost equipment on concealed weapon?


I disagree with this entire post.

And obviously anarch celerity cards are "better" since there is this additional requirement of requiring an anarch. Its quite intentional I would think.


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06 Oct 2019 03:34 #97261 by ReverendRevolver
For the thousandth time;

Celerity is not a bad discipline. It is not bad because :CEL: is not bad.
It's also not a good discipline. It's not good because :cel: is not good.

Inferior provides effects with no blood cost that other inferior disciplines also provide, manuever, press, dodge ( :qui: :tha: :pro: :pre: come to mind) but it's not a support discipline like the first 3, and isn't a bleed increasing, vote strategy breaking, sc:e nightmare like the latter.
:cel: only serves a purpose for anarchs and vamps with :for: paired with it.

Going back to "celerity guns is the brokeness" is nonsense. Broken is the adjective for MMPA girls decks. Broken is Edge Explosion imbued table poison.

Celerity guns is simply a combat setup where 6 red cards and an equipment have synergy. And one of those cards is taste. (Concealed, pursuit, psyche, sideslip, blur, taste, 44. In case that wasn't apparent. )
Compared to :ani: that's trash for efficiency/consistency of draw (Crows, Dotb, Bats)
Compared to :POT: its only advantage is access to manuevers and not having to taste back the hands for one damage.


BC isn't ignoring this, but they aren't making it a primary focus. If you notice, many vamps theyve printed are self aware of it. Pretty close to every BC vampire with out of clan :cel: has a level of fortitude as well, and many with it in clan are anarchs or otherwise appear to only have it because it's in clan and thier spread to capacity makes it inferior. Other out of clan celerity vamps have full :CEL: .
I count 2 with out of clan :cel: both precon Lasombra. Cant count the unreleased KoT malk, he wasn't theirs.

Perhaps they will add an in combat untap? Perhaps a cats guidance type blocking aid? Perhaps no cost Intercept with a circumstantial (gaurd dogs) wake?
Dont know. But they aren't afraid of adding merit to celerity because of :CEL: guns. They are cautious about the state of the card pool because they dont want to print wallpaper and just errata'd multiact enablers. DM was the last time they expanded card pool with a non anarch group of core clans with in clan celerity. The Assamites in TU barely count, and it got us Zephyr. Give it time, and if anyone is that afraid of Celerity Guns, I can loan them some Canine Hordes and DotB next year for WoN....
(Or they can run count Germaine...)
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06 Oct 2019 14:36 #97262 by LivesByProxy
Ah, now we can see why Lech loathes ranged weapons.

He can't play Canine Horde or Drawing Out The Beast. But the question remains: with :CEL: and :POT: as his disciplines, why doesn't he use more Fast Hands and Shattering Blow? :side: :silly:

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
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17 Oct 2019 15:37 #97433 by Lech

LivesByProxy wrote: Ah, now we can see why Lech loathes ranged weapons.

He can't play Canine Horde or Drawing Out The Beast. But the question remains: with :CEL: and :POT: as his disciplines, why doesn't he use more Fast Hands and Shattering Blow? :side: :silly:


I'd need to use any form of recursion to get it back from ash heap, and most of the clans i play don't have abundance of those effects (shattering blow sucks btw). Looks like i need :ANI:, but my power budget don't give me enough space for it. It can be somehow avoided using either arms of the abyss or immoral grapple, but still annoying AF.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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22 Oct 2019 12:19 #97493 by Lemminkäinen
One thing I've wondered about is why I never see anyone use Distraction. It's extremely powerful (especially at :cel:!) and versatile. I realize that it isn't super flashy as such and doesn't do direct damage but shaping your hand with five cards is pretty bonkers.

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22 Oct 2019 12:36 #97494 by LivesByProxy
My guess is that people really hate discarding cards (from a psychological perspective it is perceived as losing something, even though it may be better in the long term), and in VTES, odds are good that, once discarded, you aren't getting them back.

But the superior is nice.

As an aside, I was considering a weenie Celerity deck that could make use of Cairo Int. Airport as a way of burning more pool from your prey. Flurry of Action, Precision, Zephyrs, and the like to multi-act in tandem with it. Sideslips, Stutter-Steps, WWS, and Target Vitals to avoid combat and/or hit back for 4.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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