file Why celerity is such a bad discipline ?

28 Nov 2019 15:46 #98024 by ReverendRevolver
:cel: is less good in general for combat that :pot: or :for: or even :ani: .

Superior is different, and looking at non combat is even worse. :CEL: has the effects you need, like additional without blood cost, prevent, and psyche. :POT: lacks relevant non combat, except the standing strength increases. So extra cards can be designed knowing what any given discipline has and doesn't have.

And BC have been creating things to help weak areas, theyve just been doing so cautiously.

Anarchs got a big shot in the arm, :CEL: :PRO: multiacts, and LK helped Samedi and !Salubri.

They're still making cards.

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28 Nov 2019 16:49 #98027 by elotar

ReverendRevolver wrote:
They're still making cards.


They are making wrong cards.
VtES is a game about dealing pool damage to your prey. There are effects which do it, which help to deliver, which defend against it. If all such effects are already taken by other disciplines there are nothing you can do to make "last on the train" ones better.

And you can't go Emerald Legion way, aka Action: "win the game with some stupid conditions", because :cel: is quite widespread and it will be just taken by Unnamed/Stanislava.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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28 Nov 2019 17:18 #98028 by self biased
I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but for all of the complaints people seem to have, the most effective solution is the least popular. But then again, if we actually fixed things we wouldn't be able to complain about things.

The following user(s) said Thank You: LivesByProxy

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28 Nov 2019 20:39 #98029 by elotar
For the lulz in the TWDA:

Pursuit 217
Forced March 159
Flash 155
Psyche 148
Blur 147
Sideslip 129
Resist Earth's Grasp 107
Side Strike 79
Flurry of Action 51
fast hands 49
Instantaneous Transformation 42
Infernal Pursuit 35
Acrobatics 28
Alacrity 19
fleetness 15
Distraction 11
Nimble Feet 8

Govern the Unaligned 878
Deflection "more than 1000"

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
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28 Nov 2019 22:02 - 28 Nov 2019 22:05 #98030 by LivesByProxy
As others have pointed out, Celerity has some of the poorest card efficiency in the game - partly due to being so heavily oriented toward combat. Getting a Manuever / Additional Strike at inferior/ superior, respectively, just doesn't compare to Bleed 3 / Bloat 3 for 1 blood.

But if VTES is about dealing pool damage, and all other effects are tangential, then we need more ways of dealing removing pool.

But presently, there is no difference between losing pool, being bled, and burning pool within the game. I made a thread a while back trying to get BC to pursue these differences.

For example, in Magic, "damage" is distinct from "lose life" effects, even though it counts as life loss. Effects which key off of "damage" don't key off of "lose life". This difference makes the colors Red magic and Black magic feel different, and let's WotC print effects that support both without strictly increasing the power level of the other.

Something similar could be helpful for VTES in distinguishing different disciplines and clans. Celerity :cel: / :CEL: could have actions that "steal" pool for the controller, as distinct from bleeding or burning. And if bleeding didn't result in burning then more difference could be emphasized.

Also, "moving" pool as with 419 Operation, and effects which force others Meths (your prey) to "pay" you would be helpful.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
Last edit: 28 Nov 2019 22:05 by LivesByProxy. Reason: Typo

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29 Nov 2019 07:42 #98039 by elotar
Main difference between damage and lose life in mtg is not mechanical, it's that most such effects gains the same amount of life to the caster.

And this effects are already taken by kindred spirits, :pre: bleed cards and :tha: against minions.

So no luck for :cel: here too.

Or

Lightning Raid:
Action
Cost: 1 blood
:cel: deal 2 damage to a minion
:CEL: as above and gain 2 pool

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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