file Trifle - After a master is played

07 Jan 2020 02:39 #98446 by Sambomb
With the "recent" changes at bleed modifier and additional strike.
Can we keep this line and make the game more about deck building instead of luck?
Trifle could be the "limited" version at the master phase action and some cards would be viable if turned at trifle.

Old wrote: Trifle: Some master cards are identified as trifles. When a Methuselah plays a trifle (and it isn't canceled), she gains an additional master phase action. For an out-of-turn trifle, she gains a master phase action in her next master phase. A Methuselah can gain only one master phase action from trifles in a given master phase; others act like regular master cards.

New:
Trifle: Some master cards are identified as trifles. Once each master phase (if it isn't canceled), a Methuselah can plays a trifle, as an additional master phase action. For an out-of-turn trifle, she uses the trifle as if it is used at her next master phase.

Example: Methuselah A, have only one master phase action and a Parthenon in game.
During the Master Phase, he can play Academic Hunting Ground, tap the Parthenon, play Chantry and still at the same Master Phase, play a trifle Vessel, that is played as and additional master phase action.

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07 Jan 2020 04:36 #98448 by Kraus
Yes please. It would be easier and more consistent i believe.

Of course there are things like Giants Blood which could be followed by Villein, and most likely other intersctions where certain cards would be given a major buff.

Maybe someone will start listing those?

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07 Jan 2020 22:27 - 07 Jan 2020 22:27 #98459 by jamesatzephyr

Sambomb wrote: With the "recent" changes at bleed modifier and additional strike.


The changes that were pretty much entirely about reducing the amount of text use, with little to no impact on actual game play or power? I'm not sure how you've got from text clean up to radical power change.

Sambomb wrote: Can we keep this line and make the game more about deck building instead of luck?


People choosing to include trifles in their deck is about deck building. Of course, there will always be some luck when particular combos come to light, but that happens all over the place - playing my wake then drawing a bounce is super handy too.

If there are specific cards that you think are problematic, then they may warrant attention. But if your worry is about (hypothetically) Giant's Blood and Villein, or Villein generally, then I'm not sure that making Aye, Orun, Striga and Maleficia horrifically difficult to play is the right way to fix that. Nor am I sure that Cadet, Coven, or Corporal Reservoir need to be made extremely hard to play.


What is the problem you're actually trying to fix? It could be addressed with a card fix (if it's too powerful). It could be addressed with a more nuanced rules fix.

Sambomb wrote: For an out-of-turn trifle, she uses the trifle as if it is used at her next master phase.


I'm not 100% sure what this means in practice.

I have a Parthenon in play. I play Wash. In my master phase, am I now obligated to tap the Parthenon for the Wash? What happens if, before my turn, the Parthenon is burned or stolen or otherwise not mine? What about if I have minions who grant optional additional master phase actions (e.g. Isanwayen, Huitzilopochtli)?
Last edit: 07 Jan 2020 22:27 by jamesatzephyr.

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08 Jan 2020 09:12 #98468 by Ankha
From what I understand, the OP suggestion is about being able to play your first Trifle after another master card, even if you don't have any MPA left.
Or, to put it differently: the first trifle master card wouldn't count against your MPA limit.

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08 Jan 2020 09:41 #98469 by Kraus

Ankha wrote: From what I understand, the OP suggestion is about being able to play your first Trifle after another master card, even if you don't have any MPA left.
Or, to put it differently: the first trifle master card wouldn't count against your MPA limit.

Which, in fairness, would follow the design chance in Bleed modifiers, which had to be played in a specific order before the Limited change.

There are more changes in balance in the suggested Trifle change, however. The Limited changes in balance were minor at best.

That said, I think I'll need to start playing :AUS: Trujah again... ;)

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08 Jan 2020 14:37 #98472 by Sambomb

Ankha wrote: From what I understand, the OP suggestion is about being able to play your first Trifle after another master card, even if you don't have any MPA left.
Or, to put it differently: the first trifle master card wouldn't count against your MPA limit.

Yes!

jamesatzephyr wrote: What is the problem you're actually trying to fix? It could be addressed with a card fix (if it's too powerful). It could be addressed with a more nuanced rules fix.

I want a simple rule that you can relate to other rules in the system.
Play a trifle once per turn to go gain another MPA is the actual rule, but like the bleed modifier that dont count at the bleed modifier limit ( Leverage for example ) now you can play it at any order.
"The first trifle master card wouldn't count against your MPA limit" is easier to understand and follow the same pattern.
I want to be able to whenever it is possible, to don't be restricted to a specific order of cards.
If you already can play Villein, then play Giants Blood why not Giants Blood and then Villein? By the way, giants blood is one card per game and cant be abused and with the 5 blood limit with villein its even harder to abuse.
Other trifle cards dont care too much about the order and have the same power level and effect if you play before or after the normal master.

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