file my first non-proxy decks

19 Jan 2019 09:38 - 19 Jan 2019 09:39 #93020 by Prince Heinrich
hey all. i am part of a new playgroup in my town. except for one player, none of the rest here have any cards except black chantry ones. i am seeking advice regarding building decks with black chantry-only cards , assuming the preconstructed decks arrive on time. my first project is a Ventrue political deck with some bleed modifiers. i can get the library above 60 cards, i just think a bleed/political deck should have optimized card flow since hopefuly i wont get to too much combat (and if i do, i still wont have cards to play, the idea is to end it)

Crypt:
Jack Tredegar
Jackson Asher
Hiram "Hilde" Vries
Emily Carson
Joao Bile
Victor Donaldson
Graham Gottesman
2 x Lodin (Olaf Holte)
1 x Gotsdam, Tired Warrior
1 x Johannes Castelein
1 x Mary Anne Blaire

Library (60):
Master [11]
1 x Creepshow Casino
1 x Papillon
1 x Jake Washington
1 x Ephor
1 x Wash
3 x Villein
3 x Vessel

Combat [6]
4 x Majesty
2 x Force of Personality

Political Action [10]
1 x Ancient Influence
1 x Reins of Power
1 x Banishment
7 x Kine Resources Contested

Actions [12]
6 x Enchant Kindred
6 x Govern the Unaligned

Action Modifier [13]
4 x Seduction
4 x Conditioning
5 x Perfect Paragon

Reactions [8]
4 x On the Qui Vive
4 x Deflection


thoughts?
Last edit: 19 Jan 2019 09:39 by Prince Heinrich.

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19 Jan 2019 10:42 - 19 Jan 2019 11:21 #93022 by Bloodartist
Library (76)
Master
1 Creepshow Casino
4 Dreams of the Sphinx
2 Information Highway
1 Monastery of Shadows
1 Papillon
2 Vessel
5 Villein
1 Wash
2 Wider View

Action
6 Govern the Unaligned
2 Enchant Kindred
1 Ancient Influence
1 Reins of Power
1 Anarchist Uprising
1 Political Stranglehold
10 Kine Resources Contested
1 Heart of Nizchetus
2 Kevlar Vest

Action modifier
2 Perfect Paragon
1 Enkil Cog
2 Conditioning
6 Seduction

reaction
4 On the Qui Vive
6 Deflection
2 Wake with Evening's Freshness

combat
8 Majesty

event
1 Scourge of the Enochians

Crypt:
5 Mary Anne Blaire
1 Graham Gottesman
2 Lodin (Olaf Holte)
2 Victor Donaldson
1 New Blood
1 Emily Carson

Here is my take on the ventrue lawfirm deck (black chantry cards only), having played it over the course of 3 years. Its one of my favorites due to how flavorful it is, but its never felt like much of a contender in terms of tournament success. Voter decks with big caps that have stealth is just superior.

The issue with Ventrue is the lack of stealth. If opponents have permanent intercept you are in trouble. This deck thus tries to sometimes brute-force its way through by getting blocked, playing majesty, then doing something else with that same vampire once the blocker is tapped. Theres also monastery and casino for what little stealth they can provide. Mary Anne is by a long shot the best Ventrue available, having the ability to bloat ad infinitum with her own ability (move 2 blood downstairs, then use transfers to move them back to pool). Unfortunately, I don't see freak drives anywhere in black chantry products yet, and those are important. Freak drives give Ventrues a good lunge, letting your vampires both vote and bleed with dominate during the same turn when the coast is clear for one reason or another.

Acceleration is provided in the form of dreams of the sphinx (best vtes card) and information highway.

The cards that I would most like to include but that aren't available:
- VOTER CAPTIVATION. Seriously, the primum mobile of a voter deck, not available? Not good.
- freak drive
- learjet (works very well with freak drive), also its very flavorful for Ventrue to have their private jet!
- Second tradition: domain. Not available? wutface
- Daring the dawn. The Ventrue way of pushing the winning action through
- Uncoiling. You need to get that unmasking off the table. Cannot really be played with scourge though.
- victor pelletier. This guy is just too useful, being basically a 5-cap prince of Paris. I thought he was part of some bundle or another but apparently not..

ps. Deck size does not affect card flow. Deck composition does. This is a personal peeve of mine since I see so many people incorrectly think that VTES decks should be as small as possible. This is true in a game where there is a limit to number of a specific card in a deck, such as magic. It does not hold true for VTES. Furthermore, depending on your win condition you may want a larger deck so you actually have enough cards to beat the entire table and not just your first prey.
Not too long ago I emptied my 80 card anarch revolt animalism rush combat deck (with btw 20 masters and no nana) while sweeping a 4-player table without breaking much of a sweat. The deck is 90 cards now since it apparently has to be...

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last edit: 19 Jan 2019 11:21 by Bloodartist.

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19 Jan 2019 10:42 - 19 Jan 2019 10:49 #93023 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic my first non-proxy decks
OK here are my 2 cents :
First the crypt :
Big cap without any vote must be avoided and mid cap without title should be avoided so Gotsdam even if he is a great vamp must go out and Joao should go...

Then you can replace them with a prince or Justicar (choose the one you prefer but I would take the cheapest princes so Victor Donaldson and Graham Gottesman

Then the library :
Master :
I would cut the vessel for more villein because you will have mostly mid to big cap vampires
I would add monastery of shadows and Zillah's Valley because both are great card in this deck (well, if you do, you will probably need to NOT take my advise and double Mary Anne Blaire and Johannes instead of Victor and Graham because you will need more 8+ cap)

The rest of the cards is cool

Combat : You could generously add 2 or 4 more majesties because it is your only way for multi acting and seriously, it is great to be able to do vote, blocked, majesty superior, govern the unaligned sup or inf

Actions :
Too many of them. You will have 3 maybe 4 vampires out and your only way to multi act is your majesties superior so you will never have enough actions usable to use all these action cards. And it is discounting the fact that Mary Ann Blaire have a built in action.
You should probably cut 3 or 4 KRC (Kine Ressource Contested) and 2 to 4 Enchant Kindred/GtU. Speaking ot Enchant Kindred and GtU, Enchant Kindred, is just a lesser version of GtU and Victor and Graham don't have :PRE: and Mary Ann Blaire already have a built in EK sup so you could go for only GtU. You can keep 1 or 2 EK if you feel it in the event of Lodin or Johannes playing Govern Sup and being blocked. You can then play majesty sup and EK.

Action modifier and Reaction : everything seems fine for me.

EDITH : I agree with Bloodartist : if you can find some copies of voter captivation and freak Drive, do it, they are stapples in this deck !
Last edit: 19 Jan 2019 10:49 by Timo.

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19 Jan 2019 15:55 - 19 Jan 2019 15:56 #93026 by Boris The Blade

Bloodartist wrote: ps. Deck size does not affect card flow. Deck composition does. This is a personal peeve of mine since I see so many people incorrectly think that VTES decks should be as small as possible. This is true in a game where there is a limit to number of a specific card in a deck, such as magic. It does not hold true for VTES.

Just because you don't understand it does not mean that it is not true. Card flow is not about card ratios, it is about the variance of your hand ratios around the mean card ratios of the deck. Let us say you want a deck with half of card A and half of card B. The goal of card flow is to reduce the probability of a hand jam, i.e. the probability that your hand is 100% A or 100% B. At one extreme, if your deck size is smaller than 12, then there are at most 6 A and 6 B in the deck, so the hand jam probability is 0. At the other extreme, if the deck size tends to infinity, each card you draw has 50% probability to be A, so the probability of having only A is 0.5^7 ~ 0.75%, same for B, so the probability of a hand jam in the starting hand is 1.5%. That may not seem much, but it compounds over the whole duration of a game / tournament, and this example was only with 2 card types. It gets worse as you add more card types and reduce the ratios of one type. For finite deck sizes, the hand jam probability goes up with the deck size between these two extremes.
Last edit: 19 Jan 2019 15:56 by Boris The Blade.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Timo

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19 Jan 2019 19:06 #93027 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic my first non-proxy decks
There is non trivial impact from deck size. 60 isnt clearly right, nor is 90. Can vary from deck to deck.

The general idea in most ccgs is card duplicate limits and tacit assumptions about card balance/power level. This isn't much of a factor in vtes since you can just play 30 govern if u want.

As pointed out variance of past draws is larger with deck size but variance of future draws is greater. The difference between making sure you hit a minion tap and drawing half grapples in opening hand.

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19 Jan 2019 19:07 #93028 by Bloodartist

Boris The Blade wrote: *



"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
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