file Card submission: Rasputin

04 Apr 2014 06:20 #60627 by jamesatzephyr

Klaital wrote: Name: Rasputin
Cardtype: Event
Cost: None
Capacity: n/a
Discipline: None
Clan: None
Event, Transient: Do not replace as long as this card remains in play. Once each turn, when a vampire announces an action, he or she may burn 2 blood to give the action +2 stealth, even if stealth is not yet needed, if he or she does, and the action is blocked, burn the acting vampire and Rasputin. Titled vampires burn 1 less blood for using this ability.


I really like the design, though like Legendre I'd probably change it to torporization or something like that.

But, I'm struggling to think of which decks would really want to use it. The cost is quite expensive, and what decks are there bubbling under that have lots of free blood OR blood that they should better be spending on this than whatever it is they're doing already? Low-ish stealth decks are probably planning to spend the blood surviving combat. So you end up with this working for, say, Ventrue Law Firm and spending it instead of playing Majesty in combat? And they can top up with Voter Captivation on that +3 stealth vote they just called. Hmm.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Apr 2014 16:01 #60660 by Legendre
Replied by Legendre on topic Card submission: Rasputin
The deck that wants Rasputin is the deck that already has a good amount of stealth (with no plans of its own to intercept much). I'm thinking of things like a Vermin Channel deck, a Night Moves deck, etc. It's insurance against wall decks -- a way not to have your 5 stealth get blown by the 6 intercept that Howler just managed to cobble together with three reaction cards on top of her permacept cards.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Apr 2014 16:14 #60661 by Suoli
Replied by Suoli on topic Card submission: Rasputin
Needs a restriction on further stealth modifiers or something (and a corresponding balancing of the punishing mechanic). Otherwise it will only be used to conserve the Forgotten Labyrinth/Elder Impersonation in your hand for as long as possible.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Pendargon, Ke.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
05 Apr 2014 16:27 #60662 by Suoli
Replied by Suoli on topic Card submission: Rasputin

jamesatzephyr wrote: But, I'm struggling to think of which decks would really want to use it.


Stealthy vote decks that have a relatively low number of high impact stealth cards like Lost in Crowds and Forgotten Labyrinth. Neighbor John or Carna sitting untapped is pretty annoying for such a deck since you need to play a vote card and one of your precious stealth cards before the blocker has to really commit to playing anything. With Rasputin, you get to turn the tables whenever you have even a single big stealth card in hand.
The following user(s) said Thank You: porphyrion

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Apr 2014 04:04 #60676 by Juggernaut1981
Well, you have to burn the blood up front regardless of the success of the action... so it's an expensive +2 stealth.

Yes, it allows for more stealth but many stealth cards are free, so dedicated stealth won't use it. Stealth Vote with Presence may put some use on it as a non-pool costing version of Creepshow Casino. It might also help other low-stealth decks hit their target. Also as a once-per-minion phase it isn't that easily abused by multiple minions and may lean to favour large vampires a bit more than weenie decks.

My Blog juggernaut1981.blogspot.com/
My Dowloads Page sites.google.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home
:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Prince of Castle Hill, NSW Australia, 418
Bleed like you're juggling chainsaws...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Apr 2014 13:08 - 06 Apr 2014 13:12 #60688 by jamesatzephyr

Suoli wrote:

jamesatzephyr wrote: But, I'm struggling to think of which decks would really want to use it.


Stealthy vote decks that have a relatively low number of high impact stealth cards like Lost in Crowds and Forgotten Labyrinth.


If that is the main/intended beneficiary, then I'd have to question why. It's not like they're not already really quite good decks. Do they need another way to win?

Suoli wrote: Neighbor John or Carna sitting untapped is pretty annoying for such a deck since you need to play a vote card and one of your precious stealth cards before the blocker has to really commit to playing anything.


I'm not seeing why that's a "problem" that needs to be solved? Surely that's just how the game works. This isn't like, say, an entire clan being unplayable because they're foiled at every turn. Vampires with Auspex and +intercept are supposed to stand a fighting chance at intercepting actions, or what's the point of there being intercept in the game?

Assuming stealth vote means: Obf/Pre (Group 2 Ventrue, Setites etc.), Obf/Pre/Dom (Group 2 Ventrue again), possibly something like Obf/Obt/Dom (say, Gratiano breed-boon), you already have access to tools like:

- Pentex Subversion
- Banishment
- Elder Impersonation
- Seduction
- Blind Spot
- Creepshow Casino
- Monastery of Shadows
- Misdirection

Fortitude-endowed Ventrue, or moderately stealth-endowed vote decks like Stanislava with Protean, also have the option of Kiss of Ra, and obviously Freak Drive.

(Nosferatu Royalty is probably coming out of this the weakest, I'd hazard.)

Several of these decks can access unblockability, if they want to / need to. Day Operation/Daring the Dawn is not a terrible card in small quantities. Ditto Beast Meld - or the possibility of the rarely seen Horrific Countenance, which might be a reasonable prayer card if you expect to see a swathe of Imbued and Unmasking decks. Toreador Grand Ball just skips the whole annoying stealth part and gives the Toreador some pretty good ways around Neighbor John.

If you're particularly scared of a key blocker, you can also diversify into options such as Mind Rape and Temptation, playable by Setites, Ventrue, Lasombra, Domi-Gangrel etc. (Again, Nosferatu Royalty come out of this relatively badly.)

If you're building a deck with 8 Forgotten Labyrinth, then you're also not thinking about "What happens when that gets DI-ed?" and similar sorts of questions. Build a more resilient deck with the plethora of available tools?



And if, per Legendre's post, the right thing to be doing is to stack this on actions like Night Moves, I'd really be concerned about taking the game in that direction. Actions at stealth are supposed to be potentially blockable, with the appropriate amount of effort. If the action needs to be unblockable, go ahead and do that with an appropriate cost/effect. If the block needs to be failed, go ahead and do that too. But I don't think the game would benefit from being pushed into an area where +8 stealth is a regular feature.
Last edit: 06 Apr 2014 13:12 by jamesatzephyr.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.161 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum