Submission: Freeze!

Kraus wrote:

Maybe word it like 'until combat ends or another round begins'? Would that work? I mean, that's just narrowing down the possibilities of ambiguousness.

Wording is always based on rules, but I have an idea that might fix this.

My beef with this card is that it's not limited by anything like capacity or age, and it works just as well as a defensive option as it does as an offensive option. It could be argued that even more so as a defensive tool.

Well that is easily fixable.

As it's worded it should cancel out Psyche! and Telepathic Tracking as well, both of which are main tools in battling Combat Ends that big caps might pack.

True, but really Freeze! should guarantee another round of combat. And I think that is the bigger issue with my previous suggestion.

But, to be fair, not many would pack this card as a defensive card, as defense is always very situational. Often you'd just play a single Obedience if you wanted to avoid combat. Freeze! plus a Combat Ends does that with a two card combo.

I think this is the biggest issue. I originally titled this card "You can't escape!" so being able to play it with combat ends which defeats the entire point of the card and is something that shouldn't be allowed. I could see an argument for allowing end of round cards.

With that in mind, does this below address your concerns?

Freeze!
Play after strikes have been chosen.
Only usable if the opposing minion is a younger vampire. If combat ends this round with both combatants ready, it does not end; another round starts. No additional cards can be played until combat ends or the next round of combat.
as
as except usable on any opposing minion.

Adding anything to Dementation or Dominate is really risky business for the game as it is.

Yes and that is the challenge to design.

Upon reflection, I don't see why we shouldn't allow end of round effects. There is no real need to disable disarm, pulled fangs, or taste of vitae. The card is symmetrical in it's effects so this could be a good thing for deck that uses Freeze! as well.

The main power of this card is that it stops cards played from the hand that prevent damage and generate additional strikes. Note: Thematically vampires aren't suppose to be able to use Dominate and Celerity at the same time and vampires that are paralyzed by Dominate are usually helpless. The blind spot for this card in it's current version is equipment.

So to my knowledge if we specify end of the round then we don't need to qualify end of combat, since there will always be an end of the round and end of combat. Correct?

Revised:

Freeze!
Play after strikes have been chosen.
Only usable if the opposing minion is a younger vampire. No additional cards can be played until the end of the round. If combat ends this round with both combatants ready, it does not end; another round starts.
as
as except usable on any opposing minion.

Fun trivia fact: There are 70 vampires with but only 52 with .

This seems much more like it in my opinion.

Instead of it 'providing a press', forcing another combat round makes it actually offensive.

This card would probably find a niche in big-cap or for which we have crypts in G4-5 Nosferatu and Ravnos, as well as the Lasombra crypt.

For extra niche effects you would word the inferior as follows:

Not usable against an older vampire.

8-caps could use it against 8-caps, and it would be usable against allies (only thematical, is it?). The superior would still be untouched.

Your new wording with 'until the end of round' seems to me that it would solve the timing issues.

What about the lore? Does it say anything about proximity? I remember hearing that in the lore some dominate effects require you to touch the opponent. Is there any reason to ponder if close/long range requirements should be set?

It's still debatable if the card would be healthy for the game, knitting offensive combat effects to disciplines that already have it all (it could shrink the diversity of usable disciplines even further), but we could worry about that later or never. As a balancing and design exercise I think some of the most glaring issues were solved.

Now the card actually works as an offensive (and pseudo defensive, restricting additional strikes) card instead of clearly defensive.

I wonder if this is what Rigor Mortis (thanatosis) was supposed to be good for...

Kraus wrote:

This seems much more like it in my opinion.
This card would probably find a niche in big-cap or for which we have crypts in G4-5 Nosferatu and Ravnos, as well as the Lasombra crypt.

That is exactly what I was thinking about with this card. Specifically a Bruise / Bleed deck.

Not usable against an older vampire.

That is doable.

What about the lore? Does it say anything about proximity? I remember hearing that in the lore some dominate effects require you to touch the opponent. Is there any reason to ponder if close/long range requirements should be set?

So low level Dominate requires the target to both see and hear you. High level dominate removes those restrictions (you can give a command to their blood) and if combo-ed with Auspex you can give commands telepathically. Dementation doesn't have those limitations but specific powers require them to hear you like Voice of Madness. I had considered put a range restriction on the Dominate and then removing it will inferior Dementation, but decided against it because the range restriction doesn't really add much to the card. If someone did want to use it would a be an issue if Aid from Bats prevented a player from using Freeze!.

It's still debatable if the card would be healthy for the game, knitting offensive combat effects to disciplines that already have it all (it could shrink the diversity of usable disciplines even further), but we could worry about that later or never. As a balancing and design exercise I think some of the most glaring issues were solved.

Dominate at least has Thoughts Betrayed. Really is Dementation that needs the help to be more than a Stealth Bleed card.

I wonder if this is what Rigor Mortis (thanatosis) was supposed to be good for...

Yes, but Rigor Mortis is too narrow of a card. Only affecting additional strikes is not good enough and the maneuver / press doesn't do enough to justify the card slot.

New Version:

Freeze!
Play after strikes have been chosen.
Not usable against an older vampire. No additional cards can be played until the end of the round. If combat ends this round with both combatants ready, it does not end; another round starts.
as
as except usable on any opposing minion.