Submission: Samiel

ScoundrelAtHeart wrote:

I probably would make him independant because the salubri anritribu were a bunch of warrior salubri (the ones that use valeren) who fed up with "no revenge"-policy of the healer salubri (the ones that use obeah) and their leader was a 6th or 7th Generation (vtes blood capacity of 8 for 6th gen and 7 for 7th gen?) warrior salubri. Samiel was Generation 4 (he is the child of saulot and as an antediluvian saulot is gen 3).

The leader of the Salubri antitribu that you are referring to is Adonai. He started as 9th generation and diablorized his way down to 7. Adonai is a 7 capacity in VTES.

In VTES, Saulot is 3rd Generation and he is an 11 capacity vampire. Samiel was 4th generation. Samiel had 7 children.
Ithuriel, Gabriel, Aariel, Ezrael, and Za'aphiel - not in VTES
Uriel is a 8 Capacity Salubri antitribu
Qaqiyya el-Ghaduba is a 9 Capacity Salubri antitribu

So for consistency it makes since to make Samiel Sabbat, but yes technically he is old enough that terms like Sabbat or Camarilla would mean very little to him. On that note, I will point out that Enkidu, The Noah (aka Sabrina) is Sabbat and Gangrel antitribu in VTES despite not being Sabbat or being a part of a Sabbat bloodline in the tabletop game. Somethings we just accept and move on.

jblacey wrote:

Samiel
10 Cap Vampire group 3

Sabbat. Samiel's damage at close range in combat is unpreventable and aggravated. He may enter combat with any minion as a action.

I'm not wild about the combination of unpreventable agg damage on a vampire who can also play Telepathic Tracking to ensure he gets multiple rounds - so even if you maneuver this round, he can probably unpreventably agg you next round, or the next, and he can similarly take our dodge and S:CE unless decks are packing really obnoxious amounts of them. It makes options to defend against him tricky, especially when FOR gives him access to solid combat defence if you try to use hit back (e.g. blurring with a Magnum). And he can potentially multi-rush, even when blocked with FOR, so chump blockers aren't so useful. (Obviously, he needs some rush actions for that too, as he can't use his special action repeatedly each turn.)

That might be thematically appropriate, but thinking about it from the point of view of what options other players on the table have left to defend against him combatively, there aren't that many options left really. And that feels like a slightly uncomfortable place to be heading.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

That might be thematically appropriate, but thinking about it from the point of view of what options other players on the table have left to defend against him combatively, there aren't that many options left really. And that feels like a slightly uncomfortable place to be heading.

I need to agree on that. Making all damage on close range aggravated makes him close combat monster but making this aggravated damage always unpreventable without the need of extra cards seems to make him a bit unfair.

10 Cap Vampire group 3

Sabbat. In combat Samiel treats aggravated damage as normal, and his damage at close is unpreventable. He may enter combat with any minion as a action.

That leaves a point or so, no?
This gives him VERY strong Dawn Operation synergy, but at least requires a card to be played.Similarly for Sengir Dagger. perhaps an equip with melee weapon special? But then getting too wordy again

Blooded wrote:

10 Cap Vampire group 3

Sabbat. In combat Samiel treats aggravated damage as normal, and his damage at close is unpreventable. He may enter combat with any minion as a action.

That leaves a point or so, no?
This gives him VERY strong Dawn Operation synergy, but at least requires a card to be played.Similarly for Sengir Dagger. perhaps an equip with melee weapon special? But then getting too wordy again

That might work. I will test it out and post afterwards.

Been doing some testing. He has multiple ways to generate aggravated damage due to Dawn Operation (if the action is blocked), Sword of the Righteous( which is okay with the Path but requires a melee weapon, a bigger problem than it might seem) or Eye of Unforgiving Heaven (which is the best since it is ranged and doesn't require a weapon). The downside is that combat is very card intensive and that seems a critical weakness for all Salubri antitribu. Other combat decks are far more effective with far fewer cards. Going to spend some more time testing.