A new direction for Tremere gameplay

Kraus wrote:

Nononononono... it's way too late to blend the !clans to the clans proper.

The post above could be just light-hearted trolling, but still decided to state the "obvious". Would be too hard to implement.

I am fairly certain the suggestion was given in jest. Camarilla vs Sabbat is after all a major part of the lore.

I am however not opposed to possible new cards being printed with the Tremere in mind, even if they wouldn't be ones OT mentioned.

I've been annoyed in the past with the latest sets not touching Camarilla at all. The rationale was given that Camarilla has had so much good/broken stuff in the past. This however means that if some new player would want to play camarilla for example flavor reasons (like I did) they would be forced to acquire really old cards from Ebay or wherever. I don't like this. I think Camarilla is an integral part of world of darkness and shouldn't be completely forgotten/left to the exclusivity of old beards.

I am happy that Anarchs got a lot good cards (they sure needed them). I just wish to see something for the other factions as well..

I think cards enabling new game plans should be introduced in new sets across the board (and not exclusively anarchs), as long as they wouldn't improve too much old cards or create new broken combos. New game plans could revitalize the whole game.

edit: one possibility could be reprinting old good cards like Anthologies did

Kraus wrote:

More than anything, I'd love to get some love for other clans as well than Tremere. Since they already have so much love. But then again, their fan base seems ten times stronger and enthusiastic than the fans of any other clan.

But then again, I'm not opposed to extra spice as such, if it's reasonable, cool, interestingly carried out, adds something new to the game and isn't outright better than other strategies.

I'm just saying Tremere has bucket-loads of different directions to their gameplay as it is, whereas !Nosferatu have next to none (barring some combat-oriented dominate builds).

These 'varied options' might not be options for new players. For example, a single Nephandus costs something like 6 euros in Ebay , and you might not even be able to get enough for one complete deck if you went for it.

The old players viewpoint who already had a sizable collection can be totally different from a new players viewpoint.

So either we need reprints for that good old stuff, or new strategies for those new players to play, should they want to play said clan.

ps. I'm totally perplexed why the first reaction of old players to any suggestions for new stuff tends to be "NO!!!!!!". Every thriving CCG or LCG in existence understands the value of continually introducing new exciting stuff.

Bloodartist wrote:

I am fairly certain the suggestion was given in jest. Camarilla vs Sabbat is after all a major part of the lore.

I was in no way suggesting that we eliminate the Sabbat. And while my delivery of the idea was certainly intended to be light hearted, I could seriously get behind folding anti-tribu clans into their counterparts. We would simply have "Sabbat Ventrue" instead of "Ventrue anti-tribu."

Leaving aside the wider concerns other people have addressed, and starting with the second part first:

MrMagika wrote:

So the outcome is that this equipment adds to the mystery of the clan and the person playing this deck would be a mystery to other players just like the clan is in the story.

In practice, this is unlikely to be of much use in terms of mystery. In a tournament, people will quickly know what your deck consists of, because you'll start playing cards that set you off on a certain track, and in the following round(s) and/or final, most people will know that you're playing an Ocarina of Time deck with some Hoverboards and an occasional Visi-Sonor to help against walls.

In - say - a computer-based strategy game, you might have huge amounts of flexibility for what resources can do, by having three choices for each, which each have three further choices and resources you can split between them. There's still a reasonable degree of mystery there, because you might choose a less likely option. That's much harder in a game like V:TES where even the most complex of cards only have 11 or 12 lines of text (e.g. Call the Great Beast). Even if you bring out a Cintamani Stone and play three Chaos Emeralds on it, you still only have a very small amount of flexibility in reality.

MrMagika wrote:

1. The Tremere are focused on equipping their own special equipment named relics

Unlike regular equipment this can be upgraded or the stats on the equipment altered or (Enchanted) through the use of master cards.

So, looking at the particular mechanism, there are a few issues.

Good master cards are already generally the most powerful cards in the game. If you're creating new master cards, they need to be very good indeed to convince people to swap out Pentex Subversion and Dreams of the Sphinx. If you decide that the master cards should be trifles, you need to be displacing Villein, Wash etc.

If the cards become better through the use of master cards, think about the power curve. The card may start very weak and very slow. If my Magic Flute really needs two master cards to be worthwhile, what am I doing in turn 2, 3 and 4 when a fast moving deck comes at me?

If they need to be upgraded, what do I do with duplicates? Are you designing them so that each Charm for my Magic Bracelet can be played more than once, or are they unique? If the latter, it makes deck construction tricksy to get them out early enough to be worthwhile without jamming my hand with a pile of crap later on.

Does it have enough friction points with other decks? Tooling up via master cards provides more limited ways for decks to interact (unless it has some sort of built-in burn/steal/meddle action), far less so than an action that can be blocked. Is that a good direction? How far does it interact with other existing defence strategies that decks might be running?

I'd certainly be in favor of some new Tremere gameplay. I'm not a huge fan of Thaumaturgy as a combat discipline, and despite it being one of the most versatile disciplines in lore, IMO it has little of it in VTES.

Heck, can we at least fix the wording on Seeds of Corruption so it can have that card back?

I am really confused by this thread. Is this about Tremere or something else?

Tremere is one the best single clan crypts you can build. They are in the top 5 clans on my list. Not saying you can't create more cards for them, but please don't suggest they are not unique enough.

Bloodartist wrote:

I've been annoyed in the past with the latest sets not touching Camarilla at all. The rationale was given that Camarilla has had so much good/broken stuff in the past.

The rationale has been to give help to the clans that need it most.

I think Camarilla is an integral part of world of darkness and shouldn't be completely forgotten/left to the exclusivity of old beards.

We published 5 new Camarilla vampires in actual, printed card form. So no, the Camarilla is not completely forgotten.

We definitely want to fill the holes in Group 5 for Camarilla, explore more of the Camarilla themes and concepts, and find ways to make Primogen more useful. We've focussed on other clans and sects because we felt they needed the help more.

Recently, there's a new factor - the upcoming 5th Edition of Vampire: the Masquerade. That will be out sometime in 2018 and I think it would be ideal to have a new Camarilla set for V:TES that coincides with the launch of V5.