file Archons pt1.

29 Sep 2017 16:20 - 29 Sep 2017 16:54 #83678 by ReverendRevolver
So,
This isnt an actual card as much as a proposal and a blue print.

With probable cam set and in print being on the horizon, I'm excited. Cam has always been the easiest sect for getting new players in my experience, and I feel we can do ourselves some favors design-wise.

I'm first addressing something easy that eliminates words:
Archons. In fluff, they serve a justicar for the justicar term, they eliminate threats, etc. Now, in vtes, there is one common theme for them: blood hunt immunity.

Keyword proposal: Archon.(blood hunt cannot be called on this vampire)
Old vamps can just get the word and parentheses. New vamps can get reminder text if there's room, but by keywording, we free up space, and remove re-reading to check things.

Archons of note in vtes:
Muaziz, Theo Bell, Ariadne, samat"Ra", Lithrac, and unrelated thematically is Tariq.
Why change something on so few vamps anyway, especially when Theo is circumstantial and Lithrac doesn't fit the pattern? Ease of design in the future.

Speaking of theo.....
The AH/FN archons are the template I'd like to propose:

We should stick to what's been logical in the past, so Muaziz and Bell have this in common:
7 cap.
All 3 in clan disciplines with one at superior.
One out of clan discipline at basic, but it's actually relevant and useful.
Immunity to blood hunts(somehow)
One extra, quite useful thing.
Now samat has all of this except:
One cap lower
No extra useful thing
The out of clan skill isn't as useful.

Ariadne is on a different scale, and I feel Lithrac is underpowered, but just straight blood hunt immunity wouldn't have broken him at all.

So, as a template I propose for future sets a series of archons, if it's a cam set.
Rules are:

Even# grouping. (4or6)

7 capacity.

One in clan discipline at superior, with care being paid to what the trade off is. For example, [cel] is garbage, but [CEL] is great. If paired with [for] then basic sucks less, just due to multiact, and ways around what superior Celerity does that basic doesn't, like agg prevention in sideslip, etc. A Torrie with CEL can by default be good, while one with PRE is absolutely nothing special as an untitled 7cap.

The other 2 in clan skills at basic.

One out of clan at basic that matters. Muaziz can multiact and prevent damage, including the backlash of her own burst of sunlight. Bell can bleed and bounce, which has kept him buddied up in euro bru decks all this time. Again, small cel sucks without fortitude, and while AUS bounces, aus doesn't. Let's all agree nec will never matter here. So for, pot(grapple/disarm,etc) , Dom(bounce/bleed) , obf(stealth/disguised weapon) Tha(mots, agg strikes) or even obt(nocturns and stealth) are useful.
Dem and Ani are ok, KS at small, army of rats, etc, and small protean basically just allows agg poke, so isn't exciting.

One extra thing, on par with perma rush of a vampire (not just minion afair) or standing stealth.

And of course, blood hunt immunity.

So, let's take a random clan or 2.
Torrie:
G4, 7cap, [CEL] aus for pre. Archon. +1 intercept.
Malk:
G6 7cap, [AUS] Dem obf tha. Archon. Treats aggravated damage as normal in combat.

So, they have a clear utility. I'll admit, fortitude is an easy go-to for nos, brujah, and torries, but utilities are always good, why fight it.

Lastly, on the subject of wording (this is the most important part possibly).:

All rush actions are worded something like:
"ThisCatsName may enter combat with a ready (minion/ally/vampire/war ghoul/etc) controlled by another Methuselah as a D action.

Wordy, even without the examples. Let's analyze:
Isn't there a rule stating you can't enter combat with a non-ready minion? If not, there needs to be on added immidiately.
I believe there's a rule about not having 2 minions you control fighting as well, and again if not, we need to add it. So let's also streamline the fact that we know the minion playing the card or with the ability printed there is named what it's named.


[D] : Enter combat with a minion.

14 words gone. A d and a symbol added.

Thoughts?
Last edit: 29 Sep 2017 16:54 by ReverendRevolver.
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30 Sep 2017 08:15 #83681 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Archons pt1.

I'm first addressing something easy that eliminates words:
Archons. In fluff, they serve a justicar for the justicar term, they eliminate threats, etc. Now, in vtes, there is one common theme for them: blood hunt immunity.

Keyword proposal: Archon.(blood hunt cannot be called on this vampire)
Old vamps can just get the word and parentheses. New vamps can get reminder text if there's room, but by keywording, we free up space, and remove re-reading to check things.

Archons of note in vtes:
Muaziz, Theo Bell, Ariadne, samat"Ra", Lithrac, and unrelated thematically is Tariq.
Why change something on so few vamps anyway, especially when Theo is circumstantial and Lithrac doesn't fit the pattern? Ease of design in the future.

It's not worth a keyword that is furthermore not intuitive.

<snip>

Lastly, on the subject of wording (this is the most important part possibly).:

All rush actions are worded something like:
"ThisCatsName may enter combat with a ready (minion/ally/vampire/war ghoul/etc) controlled by another Methuselah as a D action.

Wordy, even without the examples. Let's analyze:
Isn't there a rule stating you can't enter combat with a non-ready minion? If not, there needs to be on added immidiately.
I believe there's a rule about not having 2 minions you control fighting as well, and again if not, we need to add it. So let's also streamline the fact that we know the minion playing the card or with the ability printed there is named what it's named.


[D] : Enter combat with a minion.

14 words gone. A d and a symbol added.

Thoughts?

Already done: www.vekn.net/output-changes#R0015

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