Keeping Up

Kraus wrote:

Not really. Basically you'll get this trigger only occasionally. Notice the 'not during unlock phase' clause, however that'll eventually be realized into the card text? That means only when your predator (again more restrictions) freaks, uses animalism untap or sect based reactions (2nd Trad, Under Siege...), stuff like that. It's frequent but not guaranteed.

So why is that a Fortitude card and why is it repeatable? Is the idea that because your predator takes multiple actions that my Fortitude needs more free unlock? It seems like this card is starting the conversation from the wrong direction. Fortitude already has unlock and IMHO the best unlock. Why does it need more? Why not Auspex or Animalism for unlock on another player's turn. The fact that this card triggers on another player's action basically screams that this card isn't thematically appropriate for only Fortitude. Maybe as an card?

Fortitude doesn't "need" more untap, but there are two factors weighing in on this card for me:

I love fortitude so much I run masochism, and I wouldn't even run this.

And as more "trifle" actions come to be (which IMO is solid game design, to strengthen concepts that suck by giving them this slight advantage) fortitude loses 50% of what it's identity is defined by, so re asserting that it "owns" untap is justifiable. You know, since all fortitude does is prevent damage and untap. It's got that other block failing stuff that puts your own minion in torpor, but those antics have fallen out of favor from twd entries lately. I run DtD in my Matthias spirit marionette deck, I run freak drive and prevent in every deck where 65% or more of my primary vamps have fortitude.

Not saying the cards good, or needed, just saying it has a slight reason for being possibly.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

it has a slight reason for being possibly.

I'll take that.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

And as more "trifle" actions come to be (which IMO is solid game design, to strengthen concepts that suck by giving them this slight advantage) fortitude loses 50% of what it's identity is defined by, so re asserting that it "owns" untap is justifiable.

I think the fact that Fortitude has Freak Drive means it's in no danger of losing its credibility as a source of untap, because Freak Drive is significantly better than pretty much all the more recently added sources of untap.

Instantaneous Transformation, for example, is one per vampire per turn. Truth of a Thousand Lies is twice the cost. Domain of Evernight, requiring a superior scarce discipline, is once per vampire per turn. Zephyr is interesting but unreliable - potentially useful for making deciding to block a rush with a chump blocker harder, but very clearly not Freak Drive. Forced March is interesting for its versatility - the stealth is a nice option - but requires Fortitude. Dusk Work would be interesting if Aye/Orun strategies weren't so difficult, but is clearly limited by its activation cost. Crimethinc is interesting, but the permanent Thaumaturgy level is probably more comparable with Rutor's Hand than Freak Drive, and the Pro/Qui levels which are more like Freak Drive are still restricted by the need for an anarch-related action. Some - like Guruhi are the Land and Hag's Wrinkles - are vastly more limited.

Compare Freak Drive, where my big Ventrue can bleed you, untap, Banish you, untap, Mind Rape you, untap etc., and I don't think Freak Drive has much to worry about anytime soon.



See also: I don't think Dominate needs a better bleed modifier because Aire of Elation, Bear Baiting, and Quicksilver Contemplation got printed and that means Dominate doesn't own bleed anymore.

@James

I was speaking of Abbot and more recently Field Training (which I'm a huge fan of).
Not freak drive substitutes, but actions that untap ("trifle actions")
Adding the "and this shmuck untaps" to cards is an easy way to improve weak areas of the game.
Because of that, I said what I said about the potential for Fortitude to re-assert untap as "it's thing".

Now, obviously I was on the fence generally on this card. Freak drive is one of my absolute favorite cards in the game because of the awesome superior effect letting your minions get blocked, do some combat fun stuff and then shrug and untap. It's always going to be good, but not in the PTO sense of good.

I just like the idea of fortitude having that effect as it's obvious perview.