file Submission: Greater Purpose

19 Mar 2018 09:13 - 19 Mar 2018 13:43 #85854 by Bloodartist

2/ Blood Doll allows you to put back blood on the vampire, which is quite important.


Indeed. It is often the main reason for me to include blood doll/vessel in my decks. Bloating can be done with many different cards, getting blood to vampires (safely and reliably) is harder. Sometimes blood doll is used for bloating, but more crucially the other way around.

I don't think I would use greater purpose in my decks as is. Not saying this limitation makes it bad, I'm saying it is not a direct replacement for blood doll/vessel.

ps. If you really think moving 2 blood at once is important, you can put two blood dolls/vessels on same vampire..

pps. Vessel is also not an automatic replacement over blood doll. Even though better in the abstract, the fact that vessel costs pool and you cannot move blood to your pool with vessel on the turn it is played, makes vessel slightly dangerous for decks that tend to go to low pool in the early game before they 'stabilize'. An aggressive predator could deprive you the use of vessel, whereas you can always play blood doll. Blood doll basically has 2-turn headstart compared to vessel, but this is balanced with vessel being trifle and that it destroys blood dolls. Sometimes moving blood in untap phase is important also (for example infernal vampires)

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Last edit: 19 Mar 2018 13:43 by Bloodartist.

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19 Mar 2018 13:28 #85865 by kschaefer

1/ Blood Dolls are scarce nowadays because of Vessel. Does a deck such as the one you describe with Blood Doll still exist?


Could be the metagame I play in, but even when Vessel gets played, my BDs rarely die. Either the Vessel is played cross-table or folks fail to declare the BD removal. I have no problem running 5 or 6 BDs with HC. In fact, my Inside Dirt deck does just that. It's been rather effective too.

The inability to put blood back on vampires is a major drawback to this card. It will have is uses, for sure, but most of the time late-game BDs and Vessel push to vampires rather than take blood off because minion actions win games.

I get the voting restrictions, but do you think the card wouldn't be played in a voting deck at all? What about breed-boon !Brujah or !Toreador decks? Those vampires gain votes from Foundation Exhibit and Unexpected Coalition. What about other crazy ways to get votes like Skaald or Bloodbath? Should the text be more: "If this vampire votes in a referendum, then burn this card."

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19 Mar 2018 13:51 #85868 by Bloodartist

Could be the metagame I play in, but even when Vessel gets played, my BDs rarely die. Either the Vessel is played cross-table or folks fail to declare the BD removal. I have no problem running 5 or 6 BDs with HC. In fact, my Inside Dirt deck does just that. It's been rather effective too.

I agree. Blood dolls don't randomly die to vessels crosstable here either.

I get the voting restrictions, but do you think the card wouldn't be played in a voting deck at all? What about breed-boon !Brujah or !Toreador decks? Those vampires gain votes from Foundation Exhibit and Unexpected Coalition. What about other crazy ways to get votes like Skaald or Bloodbath? Should the text be more: "If this vampire votes in a referendum, then burn this card."


I'd imagine breeding decks running tribute to the master.. But not always.

I'm somewhat hard-pressed imagining a deck that would want to run this... I guess the idea is midcap vampires that reliably refill their own blood in some way.. combat decks with taste of vitae maybe? Problem is, in combat decks putting blood back to the vampire is often a crucial option to have. Combat vampires often go low blood when their plan A is not working for one reason or another. Being forced to hunt while empty tends to lead to torpor.

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19 Mar 2018 15:54 - 19 Mar 2018 15:55 #85875 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Submission: Greater Purpose
I don't understand why you guys are going on about breed decks. Why would this be any better in those than Villein or Tribute?

Bleeders as well would use Villein or Blood Doll for versatility instead of Greater Purpose.

The only place where this would find home in is a deck that regains blood in some quantities, as far as I can tell. Combo this with any of the following:

Renewed Vigour
Hunting Ground
Owain Evans (or a similar effect)
Rack
Taste of Vitae

...or, well, you get the idea. Pump blood on guys to get them back to pool. In any other case Villein is better, because Greater Purpose isn't trifle.

Blood doll gives blood back to vampires as well, as has been said, so that's going on for it. Vessel is one of the only effects that helps with Unlock phase damage. Villein is just good overall. Tribute works wonders with 6+ minions.

I'm wondering if this'll just overpower Blood Doll, or is it sub par?

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Last edit: 19 Mar 2018 15:55 by Kraus.

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19 Mar 2018 16:18 #85877 by kschaefer

I don't understand why you guys are going on about breed decks.


Not focusing on them. Mentioned them to bring up the idea that most of those decks give votes to the weenies somehow. Ankha's no titles != no votes. I am just wondering whether cannot cast votes is a better restriction?

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19 Mar 2018 16:25 - 19 Mar 2018 16:26 #85878 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Submission: Greater Purpose

I don't understand why you guys are going on about breed decks. Why would this be any better in those than Villein or Tribute?

Bleeders as well would use Villein or Blood Doll for versatility instead of Greater Purpose.

The only place where this would find home in is a deck that regains blood in some quantities, as far as I can tell. Combo this with any of the following:

Renewed Vigour
Hunting Ground
Owain Evans (or a similar effect)
Rack
Taste of Vitae

...or, well, you get the idea. Pump blood on guys to get them back to pool. In any other case Villein is better, because Greater Purpose isn't trifle.

Blood doll gives blood back to vampires as well, as has been said, so that's going on for it. Vessel is one of the only effects that helps with Unlock phase damage. Villein is just good overall. Tribute works wonders with 6+ minions.

I'm wondering if this'll just overpower Blood Doll, or is it sub par?

In a combat deck, I wouldn't play Blood Doll (too slow), Vessel (too costly), Villein (one-shot, can't take too much blood or your vampire doesn't have any blood left for combat), or Tribute (not enough minions).
The idea is to give options to some decks that can't bloat at all (at the expense of blood). What was the last time you saw one of the following decks that didn't have a pool problem: a Nosferatu deck that is not a Royalty deck? A Miller deck ? A Renegade Garou deck ?

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Last edit: 19 Mar 2018 16:26 by Ankha.

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