Submission: Fear the Bestial Power

In a couple of threads recently, I posited some ideas for alternate "bounce" wherein the bleed was redirected as damage or as an ability to give you later +bleed. I think it would be interesting to explore this design space a little more.

Original version:
Name: Fear the Bestial Power
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Only usable during a bleed action after blocks are declined.
This vampire burns one blood to reduce the bleed by two.
Frenzy. Choose another Methuselah that is not the acting minion's controller and a minion controlled by that Methuselah. The bleed now targets this Methuselah. If the bleed is successful, instead of the chosen Methuselah burning pool, the chosen minion burns blood or life equal to the bleed amount.

Update 1:
Name: Fear the Bestial Power
Cardtype: Combo
Cost: 1 blood
Frenzy.
Minions without must burn 1 blood to attempt to block. If this action is blocked, this vampire gets +1 strength in the resulting combat.
Only usable when you are being bled, after blocks have been declined. Choose another Methuselah other than the controller of the acting minion and a minion controlled by the chosen Methuselah. The acting minion is now bleeding that Methuselah. If the bleed against the chosen Methuselah is successful, instead burning pool, the chosen minion burns blood or life equal to the bleed amount.

Well, I like this card for what that's worth, although I think the name could use work.

It helps Nosferatu and (some) Gangrel, so that's cool. It forces your prey to either get into combat (and have his minions locked as a result) so that you can get bleeds in. Or they take the bleed but redirect it, harming their minion. Does the minion burning blood mean that they could be burned outright? Or would they just go to torpor if they burned more blood that they had?

LivesByProxy wrote:

Does the minion burning blood mean that they could be burned outright? Or would they just go to torpor if they burned more blood that they had?

No. If minion that has 0 blood, is made to burn 2 blood, nothing happens since there is no blood to burn. Burning blood != damage.

kschaefer wrote:

Cost: 1 blood
Only usable during a bleed action after blocks are declined.

That's currently only necessary for bounce cards, not bleed reduction cards. Of course, bleed reduction can be played after blocks are declined, but they don't have to be. So if the card effects stayed as they are, I'd move this text to the superior only.

I'd also add "Only usable when you are being bled", as currently as worded you can use it when someone else is being bled.

kschaefer wrote:

This vampire burns one blood to reduce the bleed by two.

... but that said, I'm not personally wild about bleed reduction at inferior. First, burning two blood for it is quite expensive anyway (1 cost + burn a blood), so I'm not sure people would ever really want to use it. But second, I'm just not wild about bleed reduction in ani+pot.

I'd personally be tempted to make the inferior something different - maybe a combat effect, which could be quite decent given you're paying 1 blood for it. But could be anything. If it's about fear, perhaps an action modifier that mucks with would-be blockers or reactors? Something like "Vampires without Animalism must burn a blood to attempt to block" mildly amuses me (although that's a bit too random to be that useful, but it amuses me).

Anyway...

kschaefer wrote:

Frenzy. Choose another Methuselah that is not the acting minion's controller and a minion controlled by that Methuselah. The bleed now targets this Methuselah. If the bleed is successful, instead of the chosen Methuselah burning pool, the chosen minion burns blood or life equal to the bleed amount.

This I overall really like. I did wonder whether the controller should be given the option of burning the pool instead, in case having some blood left on their star vampire is more important to them - one of the things I was thinking about is that, as you're choosing the vampire as part of a reaction, this would let you cut through Secure Haven.

As a very minor edit, I might move the Frenzy keyword out to the intro text, so it applies to both levels. Seems thematic.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

kschaefer wrote:

This vampire burns one blood to reduce the bleed by two.

... but that said, I'm not personally wild about bleed reduction at inferior. First, burning two blood for it is quite expensive anyway (1 cost + burn a blood), so I'm not sure people would ever really want to use it. But second, I'm just not wild about bleed reduction in ani+pot.

To be honest, I wasn't really sure what to do for the inferior effect. The 2 blood to reduce a bleed by 2 seemed inline with what the superior was forcing another vampire to do. That being said, I like your thought of having a combat effect or action modifier at inferior.

I'll clean up the wording. Thanks.

kschaefer wrote:

Only usable when you are being bled, after blocks have been declined. Choose another Methuselah other than the controller of the acting minion and a minion controlled by the chosen Methuselah. The acting minion is now bleeding that Methuselah. If the bleed against the chosen Methuselah is successful, instead burning pool, the chosen minion burns blood or life equal to the bleed amount.

I've had a related idea rattling around my head for the last week or two, and I can't quite find a form that fits, but I thought I'd mention what I'm thinking in case it jogs anyone else's thoughts...

I liked the option to give the bounced-to Methuselah an alternative means of handling or part-handling the bleed, and wondered if other clans or disciplines could do something similar. My brain being what it is, I started trying to think of something Serpentis-related where they get to reduce the bleed by putting Corruption counters on the chosen minion, or some variant of that. For sanity, it wouldn't (in my head) have the "You may burn the counters to take control..." text on the card, to keep it briefer and to require you to play some action cards of your own to do that. Costing the card seemed troublesome, and I couldn't decide on the ratio of reduction to counters. One corruption counter for one bleed seemed too strong for the bouncer - one counter for two reduction, maybe?

Anyway, maybe someone else will find an implementation they think is decent.