Cities of the World

So, I'm relatively new-ish to VTES. In total I have about a good 1-2 years of play experience over the past 15 years or so. A decent amount of cards to have fun with my playgroup in Minneapolis, MN. I'm super excited that we are back in print and we, as a community, have the capability of helping shape the future of the card game. With my background and forte being on the lore of the game. I'm an avid LARP'er since the very first Laws of the Night and play the occasional table top. I've kept up with what is known as the Classic World of Darkness (CWoD) or synonymously Old World of Darkness (OWoD). Requiem...it was okay but it wasn't the Vampire that I enjoyed.

Anyway, this got me to thinking of future expansions. Theme comes to mind. Choose a major city in the world and do a *city* by Night expansion. Introduce city positions based on city (read "Titled"); Seneschal, Sherriff, Scourge, Harpy, and Keeper of Elysium. Titles presented should be converted to whatever is for appropriate sect; Camarilla, Sabbat, finally Anarch (Yay!), etc. For simplicity and 'core' game, I'm starting with the Camarilla because depending on sect they may have different abilities associated with their title amongst there own sect. How would those titles in a city incorporate in the game?

That is the part were I would like to spring board off of some people and generate discussion. I know I can't be the only one of my kind out there in this community who also has experience in the lore of the game.

Seneschal of *city* :Gets 2 votes while there is no Prince of *city*. Once there is Prince of *city*, Seneschal gets 1 vote.

Sheriff of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*. When a minion successfully bleeds you put a counter on this minion. Burn the counter to untap and attempt to block with +1 intercept (even if intercept is not yet needed) any D action against you or your minions. Only 1 counter can be burned per action.

Scourge of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*. Camarilla Vampires cannot vote to burn the scourge when diablerizing an opposing sect.

Harpy of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*.May tap to cancel the inherent Title Vote/Ability of Camarilla vampires with a Seneschal or lower title excluding another Harpy titled vampire.

Keeper of Elysium of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*.Gains +1 Intercept against allies and retainers called into play by a Camarilla Vampire.

There have already been attempts to implement these lore pieces in form of cards:

Name: Command of the Harpies
[DS:U2, CE:PM/PTo]
Cardtype: Political Action
Requires a Camarilla vampire.
Choose a ready prince. Successful referendum means the prince loses his or her title.
Artist: Christopher Rush

Name: Scourge
[KoT:U]
Cardtype: Political Action
Requires a titled vampire.
Choose a vampire of the same sect. If this referendum is successful, put this card on the chosen vampire and unlock this acting vampire. The vampire with this card may enter combat with a vampire with capacity 4 or less or with an ally as a +1 stealth action.
Artist: Justin Norman

Of course there is plenty of room for more exploration. This might be the way to represent those elements: cards that grant vampires said "titles". Of course they haven't been particularly good previously, but that is just a future challenge of design. Scourge is getting the right idea with the acting unlock, but still isn't quite there.

The positions within cities are core elements of the WoD experience though, that's for sure, and should be getting some extra love once the new Camarilla expansion hits home (probably at the time of the new core).

Krausedit\\ I'm not seeing Scourge in the KoT reprint bundles. It doesn't seem THAT bad that it shouldn't be reprinted. Or maybe, as it's so tied in with the lore, it's being held back for an errata in reprint? Pure speculation. Maybe Black Chantry dudes might give us a clue.

The basic ideas here could be a neat storyline event, but I'd lean more towards cam/sabbat//anarch, turf war.

Typically the seneschal, scourge, etc is reflected by abilities on crypt cards kinda well. I would highly recommend designing crypt cards (or master archetypes) to reflect this.

Also, library cards for primogen that don't suck is relatively untapped design space, and next set Is Cam.

I wan wasn't aware of those cards. I suppose I should have researched the secret library better. But.... it does make sense for them to be political actions requiring a titled Camarilla Vampire. I love the input here

Master archetypes is a good alternative to a political action. I agree also that specific cities could make for best storylines/ events mn

Thin_Blood wrote:

Master archetypes is a good alternative to a political action.

Master cards that actually get played are - typically - some of the most powerful cards in the game. To get someone to decide not to play Pentex Subversion, Dreams of the Sphinx, Zillah's Valley, Week of Nightmares, Perfectionist(*), Blood Doll, Direct Intervention, Golconda, Giant's Blood, Heidelberg, Ashur Tablets, Villein, Wash etc., you need to be doing something really pretty strong. Minion cards are much more playable.

(*) Perfectionist is one of the very few Archetypes that sees play in very good decks. Most don't get that much of an outing.

Additionally, long experience has generally shown that if you have the choice between building a crypt with a vampire with the ability or trait you want (e.g. disciplines, title, clan) or you can play a master card to get it, the crypt version is typically a better deal - the vampire comes out and just works, with no hand jam.

Thin_blood wrote:

Seneschal of *city* :Gets 2 votes while there is no Prince of *city*. Once there is Prince of *city*, Seneschal gets 1 vote.

Sheriff of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*. When a minion successfully bleeds you put a counter on this minion. Burn the counter to untap and attempt to block with +1 intercept (even if intercept is not yet needed) any D action against you or your minions. Only 1 counter can be burned per action.

Scourge of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*. Camarilla Vampires cannot vote to burn the scourge when diablerizing an opposing sect.

Harpy of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*.May tap to cancel the inherent Title Vote/Ability of Camarilla vampires with a Seneschal or lower title excluding another Harpy titled vampire.

Keeper of Elysium of *city* - Requires Prince or Seneschal of *city*.Gains +1 Intercept against allies and retainers called into play by a Camarilla Vampire.

One generic problem: making things dependent on the sects of vampires played by other Methuselah is inherently random. If you're sat on a table with a Howler wall, weenie DEM (no titles regardless of sect), an Imbued deck, and a Tsunda breed deck, no-one really gives a stuff that a Camarilla title can be nullified.

Positive options that I can plan to capitalize on are much better building blocks for abilities. For 'reactive' abilities, you want them to apply to very broad situations that turn up a lot.


Then, taking them one by one:

If you're playing a Prince-based combat deck, Archon is your better bet. Get rush actions, and no blood hunts, all in one. Or play a vampire like Theo Bell who does it anyway. Blood hunts aren't generally that big a thing anyhow.

Seneschal: just play a Prince instead. There are enough of them. Contesting titles isn't a big thing in V:TES. By playing a Prince, you get to play Parity Shift, one of the very strongest cards in the game - and get access to Second Tradition, Third Tradition, and a variety of other really strong options. Unless a Seneschal comes with some really amazing perks, those vampires aren't going to stop people playing Princes.

Sheriff is vaguely interesting, and could be built on but is really cramping on the style of No Secrets from the Magaji. Untap+intercept is their thing, as opposed to Second Tradition.

What does having +1 intercept against a retainer mean? Against the action to employ one (because retainers don't take actions)? Is that the same for allies, only on the action to recruit the ally? Because that's really, really weak.