lightbulb [card idea] Shiv

29 Jun 2018 11:35 #88458 by jamesatzephyr
This has been rattling round in my head for a month or so now, so I thought I might as well share it:
Shiv
Equipment
Requires an anarch
Melee weapon.
Strength+1 damage each strike, only usable once each combat.
Before play begins, you may move up to three Shivs from your library to your research area (shuffle afterwards). When an anarch enters play under your control, or one of your vampires becomes anarch, you may move one Shiv from your research area to that vampire.

To me, it seems anarchy-y - cheap, simple weapons, making them a bit more potent in combat for a very low cost. Combos with Blade Clot, Lam Into, Steely Tenacity, plus whatever other tech you might be packing. The "requires an anarch" restriction is intended to stop it being strictly better than Brass Knuckles, but without requiring a blood or pool cost if you want to put more in the deck. It's a move rather than an equip, so the cost wouldn't strictly be relevant anyway unless someone did something annoying like Centralized Background Check but, you know, whatever.

So, a few thoughts:
- "Before play begins" would probably need to be a new rules-based keyword. If it was used for other things, it would be used very, very sparingly, in my view. And probably in areas that are totally different e.g. one card for Black Hand, or one thing for Laibon that jumpstarts Aye or Orun etc., rather than 27 things for Anarchs. It wouldn't, in my view, be for Big Powerful Things. If they're all "put this card in view somewhere and bring it out more easily" effects, maybe the keyword could restrict the total number of different cards you could do it with, if you do manage to try to assemble a Black Hand Laibon Anarch deck etc.

- The use of the research area has ups and downs. Ups: if you were ever to put some Shivs in the research area yourself with Research, you can flip even more out. (This would never happen.) But it is conceptually quite neat, and easy to see if a card is in that area. Downs: it means we can't just get rid of the research area. I did draft a slightly different wording that doesn't rely on the research area, but wasn't able to get it so it felt quite right.
Before play begins, you may move up to three Shivs from your library to your uncontrolled region, face up (shuffle afterwards). When an anarch enters play under your control, or one of your vampires becomes anarch, you may move one Shiv from your uncontrolled region to that vampire.

- In terms of cards in your deck, my thought would be that the maximums and minimums apply counting these cards. i.e. your deck is your deck when you sit down. Then you move up to 3 Shivs into whichever area. So 3 Shivs in whichever area, 87 cards max in the rest of your deck.

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29 Jun 2018 12:44 #88459 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic [card idea] Shiv
It has potential.

I'd like to see it burn after use (you dump the shiv once you use it) for theme and nerfing it.

Its deck thinning is also pretty strong, able to take 60 cards to 57 while running burn option stuff.

Worth testing. Imo.

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30 Jun 2018 11:41 #88474 by Ke.
Replied by Ke. on topic [card idea] Shiv
I like the "Before play begins" aspect. Opens up new (but hopefully not annoying) design options. Reminds me of some of Heartstone cards.

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02 Jul 2018 03:39 #88487 by hollowboy
Replied by hollowboy on topic [card idea] Shiv

I like the "Before play begins" aspect. Opens up new (but hopefully not annoying) design options.


For experienced players*, 100% agree. This mechanic would be an ideal way to try out new ways to rebalance the game.

e.g. I was looking at Erlik:

"As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls"

...and thinking that it would be great if this was the default, rather than game-slowing bloat, such as Govern and Villein (stuff that takes up time / deckslots / actions).

Having a "Before play begins" mechanic could do exactly that.

[card idea] using "before play mechanic"
Unique and Beautiful Snowflake
Lock when you move a [X] to the ready region in your influence phase.
You can distribute up to [Y] blood from them to any of your uncontrolled [Z]
[Some restriction]

The stuff in [square brackets] could be set to whatever would make it interesting, yet not be too helpful for existing strong strategies, e.g.

Unique and Beautiful Snowflake
Lock when you move a primogen or bishop to the ready region in your influence phase.
You can distribute up to 4 blood from them to any of your uncontrolled primogen or bishops.
You cannot gain pool during your master phase. Your actions to add counters to an uncontrolled vampire get -2 stealth.

*for new players, not so much. There are already so many rules! For the sake of new players, I think it would be best to see a few rules / card types scrapped before any new rule types get added.

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02 Jul 2018 04:20 #88488 by Nac
Replied by Nac on topic [card idea] Shiv
I'd love some kind of agenda/conspiracy/quest kind of card for vtes, custom is always welcome

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02 Jul 2018 09:13 #88492 by hollowboy
Replied by hollowboy on topic [card idea] Shiv

This has been rattling round in my head for a month or so now, so I thought I might as well share it:
Shiv
Equipment
Requires an anarch
Melee weapon.
Strength+1 damage each strike, only usable once each combat.
Before play begins, you may move up to three Shivs from your library to your research area (shuffle afterwards). When an anarch enters play under your control, or one of your vampires becomes anarch, you may move one Shiv from your research area to that vampire.


My issue: there are already lots of thematically fine weapons that don't see much play. Adding another that's similar-but-better just pushes Chainsaw etc. even further down the power curve. I'd rather see another weapon-enabling card.

Currently, Concealed Weapon + 44 Magnum is the combo that gets almost all the love. Some variety would be nice.

cheap, simple weapons, making them a bit more potent in combat for a very low cost [...]
- "Before play begins" would probably need to be a new rules-based keyword. [...]
- The use of the research area has ups and downs. [...] I did draft a slightly different wording that doesn't rely on the research area, but wasn't able to get it so it felt quite right.


There's already a cheap and simple weapon that's approximately as good and almost as easy to 'equip' - Weighted Walking Stick. The main advantage "Shiv" has over Stick is the Anarch flavour and the card flow.

So, why not dream up a card that adds those things to Stick, and that doesn't need a new rule / keyword / thing?

Name: "Abandoned Cottage"
Cardtype: Master: Trifle. Unique Location
Cost: 0
Search your library for a Weighted Walking Stick, Wooden Stake or Poker, and place it on this card (face up). Shuffle afterward. You may play the card from this location as if from your hand (requirements apply as usual).
If you control an Anarch, you may burn this location to shuffle 2 combat cards from your ash heap into your library.

OR (less text)

Name: "Abandoned Cottage"
Cardtype: Master: Trifle. Unique Location
Cost: 0
Search your library for a Weighted Walking Stick, Wooden Stake or Poker, and and move it to your hand. Shuffle and discard afterward.
If you control an Anarch, you may burn this location to shuffle 2 combat cards from your ash heap into your library.


No requirements, so you can cycle Cottage on turn 1 ...but it needs an Anarch to trigger the burn / recursion text (and play another Cottage).

6 Abandoned Cottage + 4 Weighted Walking Sticks would give +1 damage nearly as reliably as 3 "Shiv".

The cottage module = more card slots, and more randomness compared to "Shiv", but the recursion / flexibility would usually make up for it.

The Wooden Stake and Poker options are for variety / flexibility - you might go for those only when you had an enabling card (e.g. Concealed Weapon or Garuhi are the Land) in hand.

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