[Card ban idea] List

I'm assuming you were also against nerfs (bans) to cards like PTO, Zip Gun, DBR, Majesty and others, right?

Didn't play at the time. I started when CE was out, or something along those lines.

That's actually stupid AF.

That's, like, your opinion man.

Seriously though, it IS totally subjective what is fun and what is dumb. VtES is rare in that it caters for more of those preferences than many other games, I feel. Dumb things in tournaments might make it super fun for some players. Not one person can decide what is dumb and what isn't for others.

Just saying this since new players were mentioned.

Games need to end and you support cards that give players new beads like govern ? WTF ?

Beautifully taken out of context. Govern makes bead so that more guys that take out those beads come out faster; also, inferior takes beads out faster than Scouting Mission.

TTF (That The Fuck).

Getting govern chain running to influence out vampires faster than prey, then deflect all bleed toward you to your prey, then pentex subversion + govern x 3 +conditioning x 3, all with some delivery, rip your prey unless he have dominate/auspex ? That's what you want ?

That's one way of playing the game I play, yes.

DJHedgehog wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote:

I assume you are referring to a tournament setting. I'm sorry to say I can't relate. I don't play in tournaments and feel tournament-level VTES is too odd to even consider attempting.

... I just don't know what to even say. I'm only talking about competitive play. Why would I care what you play with your friends at your house? You could tell me you're still playing Return to Innocence and I wouldn't care, even a little.

Wait, you changed the thesis of your argument. First you said you have to fix old cards to bring in new players. Now you're saying you need to fix old cards to have a competitive tournament environment. These are 2 different things. New players likely aren't going to play in tournaments at first, they're likely going to play in your kitchen at first.

I'm talking about building a CCG level competitive environment, which, despite all your nay-saying, is absolutely possible.

So...I can't be nay-saying when you change the thesis of your argument. My previous post was not speaking to ways in which to foster a competitive environment at the tournament level, it was speaking to ways in which new players are brought into the game, and how Dominate being at the top of the power curve, I believe, is not a deterrent for new players.

The game has pedigree: it was designed by Garfield. The game has staying power: competitive games have been around since '94. The game is built on super solid foundation. The game is unique in that it involves 4-5 players at a time with a specialized predator/prey relationship.

On this, I agree with you 100%. But, where we differ is I believe the pedigree is solid enough, and the card pool doesn't really need to change.

There are a lot of problems with the game that need to be "cleaned up" to make it a streamlined game that has the potential to bring in new players. None of the things I've proposed have anything to do with you enjoying the game, however you want, in your kitchen.

I'm not sure I understand you here. If all you're talking about is fixing cards in the context of competitive, tournament play, how in any way would this affect bringing in new players? In that case, the game isn't being "cleaned up" for new players, it's being "cleaned up" for people who play in tournaments.

Kraus wrote:

I'm assuming you were also against nerfs (bans) to cards like PTO, Zip Gun, DBR, Majesty and others, right?

Didn't play at the time. I started when CE was out, or something along those lines.

That's quite a dodge. You are against easy pulled fangs/ZG+DBR combat ? Non-repeat actions ? Well, what i can say, you defend current top cards because they are here, and those combos were also in the game and i don't hear "guys, maybe unban those, what about returning jyhad players?".

Kraus wrote:

That's actually stupid AF.

That's, like, your opinion man.

Seriously though, it IS totally subjective what is fun and what is dumb. VtES is rare in that it caters for more of those preferences than many other games, I feel. Dumb things in tournaments might make it super fun for some players. Not one person can decide what is dumb and what isn't for others.

Just saying this since new players were mentioned.

Well, that WAS fun for the player, i think his prey enjoyed it too. Like cross-table wtf rush which burns a vampire for fun. Yeah, that's totally subjective. Except i don't like to see such plays at the tournaments and it's not playing to win ...

Didn't change the fact it was stupid af.

Kraus wrote:

Beautifully taken out of context. Govern makes bead so that more guys that take out those beads come out faster; also, inferior takes beads out faster than Scouting Mission.

TTF (That The Fuck).

Superior create beads, the fact that inferior is awesome too isn't the main reason GtU is on the top of ban/change list.

Kraus wrote:

Getting govern chain running to influence out vampires faster than prey, then deflect all bleed toward you to your prey, then pentex subversion + govern x 3 +conditioning x 3, all with some delivery, rip your prey unless he have dominate/auspex ? That's what you want ?

That's one way of playing the game I play, yes.

There are 13 major clans, 4 out of those have dominate in-clan. Why the fuck i have to go into final table of tournament and see 3-4 decks playing dominate ? Why aren't people splashing for example potence or celerity ? Why those aren't top disciplines ? Only dominate, dominate, and sometimes odd auspex (for bounce, because why the heck not?)

Kraus wrote:

As can be proven that the latest new set in print in WW times (Heirs to the Blood) was sold out super fast, and there was extreme demand for it. The same was true with Keepers of Tradition.

Well, the superfast is just a myth that people have stated to believe as it has been repeated long enough.

Surely both sets sold out quicker than most expansions (many of which never sold out while WW was still publishing VTES), but superfast could only perhaps be applied to HotB Starters. Please stop spreading ungrounded rumors with no base in reality!


Daddy will now give you some hard data. All purchases made from the fulfillment company WW used, so these were bought directly from WW. Please notice these were instances where I was able to place our last order and receive some. Certainly none were orders for last copies so the actual availability time is actually longer.

HttB Boosters -I was still able to reorder these exactly one year after the release. Hardly superfast!

HttB Starters -I was able to reorder these three months after the release. In VTES that could be described as superfast, but some other games sell out on release, so 3 months ain't exactly superduperfast. But clearly this was a case of underprinting a product that proved to be very solid and thus much requested.

KotT Boosters -I was still able to reorder these 28 months after the release. That is two and one third years. Superfast it ain't. Not even fast. Still, it could've used a reprinting; would've had no problems in selling more. (Also, as before placing that order I had scrounged some displays from the distribution, so it is possible that the last small batch we got was a return from book trade or somesuch. So checking with the previous restock I made would make these last 17 months.)

KotT Starters -I was able to reorder these 20 months after the release. The first Starter, Ventrue, finally sold out, like, this week. All the other three are still available (at Fantasiapelit).

I think that it is needed to be mentioned, that weenies are a problem for the game - they stupidly disbalance the table both when playing as intended (shutting their prey) or horribly dying if some trump cards are played.

For it's a crazy ability of 2 cap to bleed for 5. It must be fixed.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

All the resources have nominally dried up after being oop for so long.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

(Anyway, more brick and mortar stores can viablly support vtes if local playerbase exists in their establishments needing to impulsively buy it. Minimally, princes drum up topics of tournaments with local stores, and local players incessantly call and ask "do you guys sell vtes cards? I heard it was back in print..." . Unless you don't want to be able to buy cards locally.... )

I sure hope that once the BCC guys get that rumored starter set out some time in the future it'll be available far and wide.

But my experience with US compatriots in the rertail business is that these people have the memory of an elephant and getting them to try out a game they feel they got burned with a decade ago might prove difficult.

Luckily new stores obviously have come around since. But most tend to concentrate on MtG, YGO and Pokemon.

But hopefully places where you have active playerbase which bothers to let the FLGS know that they'd prefer to purchase their copies from the FLGS might be helpful. But remember if you get instant gratification by buying online that ain't gonna help the FLGS adjust their thinking. Neither will buying from Kickstarter (if it gets a KS treatment).