Submission: Relentless Hunter

Kraus wrote:

Unnamed.

Nuff said.

If you want to do a !gangrel bleed card, it will need to have a !gangrel requirement i'm afraid.

Kraus,

I am so disappointed in you. The Unnamed has way better options than Relentless Hunter right now. This is not a bleed more card. In fact, I have been considering adding a restriction that while Relentless Hunter is in play, minions bleeding your prey cannot bleed for more than one.

Consider this: Night Moves and Relentless Hunter = 1 bleed, 2 pool loss.

Tell me if this addresses concerns.

Relentless Hunter

1
Only usable after a successful bleed action.
Your prey burns a .
No other Relentless Hunter cards may be played this turn. For the remainder of the turn, minions bleeding your prey cannot bleed for more than 1 and whenever your prey loses a during a minion phase action, they lose an additional .
"They sense it, can you?"

jblacey wrote:

Kraus wrote:

Unnamed.

Nuff said.

If you want to do a !gangrel bleed card, it will need to have a !gangrel requirement i'm afraid.

Kraus,

I am so disappointed in you. The Unnamed has way better options than Relentless Hunter right now. This is not a bleed more card. In fact, I have been considering adding a restriction that while Relentless Hunter is in play, minions bleeding your prey cannot bleed for more than one.

Consider this: Night Moves and Relentless Hunter = 1 bleed, 2 pool loss.

Sorry mate, I must still be concussed by the recent threads here...

I'm having a hard time evaluating this here card, I'll have to admit. Giving !Gangrel more bleed options is all fine, but with CEL OBF it either is too weak or pushes Unnamed further still. Or so it would seem at first glance.

Night Moves and Relentless for 2 is cute, but I'm more worried about Enkil Cog + Public Trust + Aire of Elation + Relentless being 7 instead of 6. It's just a thing to be worried about.

I have no suggestions at the moment though, and will be in a hurry for quite some time. Sorry if I'm a part pooper. Your previous attempts at giving !Gangrel more stuff were more to the point though, I feel.

I'm finding that giving OBF CEL more bleed boosts and bleed synergies just aim to make Assamites and !Gangrel a worse S&B. We already have great S&B clans and disciplines. If you could make something unique, synergistic or weird with or instead of those bleeds, THAT would set these clans apart.

Krausedit\\ I do enjoy this being unbouncable, I'll give you that. Nice.

The intention was to create a bleed alternative card, not an enhancement for bleeds. Gaining the edge and triggering (potentially stacking additional bleed effects) was not intended. It was a problem. Now this is an action modifier that causes a successful action to fail to do a different effect; this shutdowns most of the bleed abuse and creates an interesting space for cards where players can fail their actions to do an effect other than the text of the original action.

After some testing, the use of the trigger of "whenever" was extremely brutal with multiple triggers and needed to be removed. Multiple actions that triggered multiple times got out of hand. Also the requirement of a bleed action, specifically was more limiting than I realized and negated the surprise factor.

New version:

Relentless Hunter

1
Only usable after a successful action targeting your prey or a card they control. The action fails. A vampire can only play one Relentless Hunter each turn.
Your prey burns 2 .
Burn a from X (up to 3) other ready unlocked minions you control and your prey burns 2+X .
"They sense it, can you?"

The inferior was intended to be a fair bleed effect, equivalent to +1 bleed but an added advantage since the card requires two disciplines and a blood expenditure.

The superior was meant to be an effective burst card for an oust usable by Vampires that don't normally pack large bleed modifiers. The original version of the text was too loose (working with all pool loss), favoring multiple actions, and got out of control very fast with the correct setup. This version has a maximum effectiveness of 5 pool loss for 4 blood (spread across 4 vampires) and requires 2 specific superior disciplines on the acting vampire. This amount can be tuned in playtest but from some early testing seems very reasonable.

I like the card a lot, it seems pretty original. But I feel it can be pretty strong, although blood intensive.

What I like is that it is actually a bleed, but is a sensible bleed: it can be deflected and your meta-prey would only receive a bleed for 1, but if not deflected, your prey would receive a bleed for 5 (and they will).

Now, I don't know what to think about the interaction between this and Night Moves, because what you are doing is bleeding at 6 stealth, and then gaining +4 bleed without risking neither archon nor a bounce effect. Yes, this causes you to pay 4 blood, but again, you are "bleeding" for 5 at 6 stealth without being able to bounce.

I think the superior version should be playable only once per mathuselah each turn, while the inferior one could be played once per vampire.

Also, the superior part ask for burning blood from 3 other minons, which, Iif I understand correctly, means that you can burn blood from allies, which I don't know if that's intended or not.

Ratadin wrote:

I think the superior version should be playable only once per mathuselah each turn, while the inferior one could be played once per vampire.

Once per turn on the superior text could work.

Also, the superior part ask for burning blood from 3 other minons, which, Iif I understand correctly, means that you can burn blood from allies, which I don't know if that's intended or not.

Usually allies can only burn life as if it was blood for specific effects or for healing damage. Specifying vampires for the card text, thematically makes more sense because it is effectively a swarm.