Cerebral Resequencing [Protean]

Thanks to all who replied.

While the goal was to give !Gangrel an anti-bounce tool, I thought about it some more from a different view-point.

One veteran in our playgroup suggested giving Obfuscate bounce in order to help the Nos/!Nos and !Gangrel, and I was initially against this idea. I said that if Obfuscate got bounce, it would need to be distinctly different in order to not muddy the disciplines. However, in light of this conversation, I propose the following:

Doppelgänger Ploy
+1 bleed if your stealth is ≥ 4.
Only usable when you are being bled. Tap this reacting vampire. He or she is now considered the acting vampire and is bleeding your prey with +X bleed where X is the bleed of the previously acting vampire that was bleeding you. If your vampire's bleed is successful, the previously acting vampire continues their action, but if more than 2 pool is bled that way, ignore the excess.

So instead of bleed-bounce, it is a bleed-replacement? Like a weird Mask of 1K Faces? I don't know about the wording or templating, name is easily changeable. Flavor is that Protean + Obfuscate lets the user be a perfect mimic of another vampire and something something big bleeds...?

Granted, this still works with the Unnamed, but at least it avoids Stanislava.

Kushiel wrote:

Bloodartist wrote:

Bounce is one big element on why games take so long.

A class of cards which increase the likelihood of successful bleeds, thereby removing pool from the table, are the reason that games take so long?

Yes, as the threat of it prevents players who rely on bleeding as an oust mechanic of doing just that, unless they have bounce cancels or some other ways of dealing with their preys vampires.

In other words, bleed deck will often just sit there, not bleeding(at least if they are smart), if its obvious that the prey has bounce ready and waiting. Its logical: why would you want to give the oust to your prey? You do the work and your prey reaps the benefits?

Look at the big picture.

Without going too deep into the subject, I'll agree that I found Bloodartist's comment baffling to say the least. I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that bounce slows down games. In my experience it actually does the opposite.

Bounce is crucial and absolutely essential to the game. At least if I try to look at the big picture.

There are multiple ways to play around them, if your main plan is to bleed. Cancel isn't the only one.

Bloodartist wrote:

In other words, bleed deck will often just sit there, not bleeding(at least if they are smart), if its obvious that the prey has bounce ready and waiting. Its logical: why would you want to give the oust to your prey? You do the work and your prey reaps the benefits?

Look at the big picture.

This is just one of the many reasons that Revelations is an excellent card, and easily available to quite a lot of stealth-bleed decks - either because they have native Auspex, or because inferior Auspex is exceedingly common as an off-clan discipline, and the (usually) best use of Revelations only requires inferior.

It's also worth looking at the potentially very strong Tangle Atropos' Hand at [pot] (useful for Lasombra, but also a heavy-bleeding Brujah/!Brujah deck, some Nosferatu/Guruhi etc.), which allows you to draw out tech and then cancel the action if a block attempt happens. It's relatively easy to check if your grand-prey - or whoever the likely bounce target will be if not them, for some reason - has an untapped minion who can declare a block. If this is a known feature of your deck (as opposed to a 1-2 copy prayer card), it's something they may start to plan around. The block doesn't need to be successful, just attempted, and because the action is terminated before resolution without resolving you can repeat the bleed - the taint on repeating actions only kicks in at resolution (successful or unsuccessful). (Tangle Atropos' Hand is high up on my 'deserves a reprint somewhere easily accessible' list.)

Last local tournament (16 players) I did make it to the finals with Ventrue voter/bleeders starring Mithras that used some Tangles. There's so many (good even) Ventrue with . It's a fine card.

When doing a bleed deck, splash in a single Misdirection. You will be surprised by the effect it might have.

Tangle Atropos' Hand is high up on my 'deserves a reprint somewhere easily accessible' list.

But we already have such a card (often overlooked) as applicable as TAH, although it has the "ally or younger vampire" restriction I've always wondered poeple are just missing it, or is it that much worse so they disregard it.