Submission: Manifold Guise

Kraus wrote:

Doesnt the rulebook or some ruling already say that a minion cant bleed their controller ever in any circumstance? Wouldnt that make the last piece of text redundant?

LSJ's ruling says any effect would cause the action to "fizzle".

The idea is we don't want people to do something that could easily be clarified, so why not clarify it? I think it is reasonable to accept that clarification text should be used whenever possible.

For example on Disguised Weapon (another Obfuscate card),

This card has multiple redundant statements.

"if you have a weapon card in your hand."

Seems pretty obvious, since nothing in the card states that you can get the weapon from another play region. Technically, redundant.

"(and pay cost to equip as normal)."

Also redundant since no effect says without cost and exceptions to normal usage always need to be stated.

So I have been play testing this card... and let me say... this card is incredible!!!

In particular, while I was hoping to get good value from Samedi because of and being in clan, their crypt quality is lacking. I found the better option is Nosferatu / Nosferatu Antitribu group 3-4 becomes a very solid deck.

In fact a really cute trick is to Manifold Guise to redirect a action to Rabbat. She can't take a action to enter combat or block an action that isn't targeting her... but with Manifold Guise, suddenly you can change the target to her.

The other cool use for the card is to keep action cards from targeting Star vampires. For instance I was playing around with Mata Hari and this card feels like a really nice safety net.

Actually, the trick with Rabbat is really neat. The ability to declare yourself as the chose Methuselah with the inferior option, and then redirect rush actions to your combat monsters is something that isn't immediately obvious. It seems to have a greater strategic depth than a passing glance suggests, and it would really test the player's decision making skill.

I have not said too much about the usability of the forums or site, but I will say this: there seems to be no options to correct misclicks even from the admin panel.

So:

The last post with revision suggestion was deleted by accident. Moderation terribly apologizes for the inconvenience. If you could, please rewrite the post.

I was supposed to quote on the post and say that the latest iteration seems like a really nice idea; just, make sure that it does not overlap other Obfuscate cards that already work similarly. Obfuscate defense options should be super clunky. I would make it 0 stealth and definitely no unlock.

Also, actually this feels a lot like a Chimestry card.

Again, terribly sorry about the misclick. Also, let this be a reminder that the forum interface would need some tweaking.

Np Kraus,

I still had the post from my buffer.

So I will repost it here:

LivesByProxy wrote:

It seems to have a greater strategic depth than a passing glance suggests, and it would really test the player's decision making skill.

This is exactly the case. It makes doing actions targeting OBF tricky and the key is that you can see the card in play. The biggest difference is that this is an active defense vs passive defense (Deflection and most bleed bounce).

That said... I am not sure the bleed bounce is necessary for OBF, but the action redirection is way too much fun... So let me revise this card. I am going to remove the action requirement as it works better with other obfuscate cards.

Manifold Guise

1
Put this card into play.
You may burn this card during a action targeting a minion you control to change the target of the action to an eligible minion, but not a minion controlled by the acting minion's controller.
As above, or you may burn this card to make a bleed action targeting you fail.

So net results:
- No longer a action.
- This card no longer has an additional targeting restriction but still allows fun redirection actions tricks. Keep in mind, it still says "eligible" meaning that players can still play around that requirement. For example for cards like Ambush, the target still has to be locked or for abilities that require Predator or Prey. It means that placing an additional targeting restriction isn't necessary and it makes cards without restrictions more dangerous to play against someone that has a Manifold Guise in play.
- No need to keep track of target Methuselah. Yay, less book keeping.
- Shorter text.
- Removed the bounce aspect in favor of "make a bleed action targeting you fail". Yes that means if you have bounce from or those are still better, but now there is another option for players that don't want to play the bounce game.

Considerations:
1) I am considering adding text that says "You may only have one Manifold Guise in play.", but I am not sure it is necessary.
2) It might be reasonable to change the cost. My reasoning is this the same cost as a Deflection for a lesser effect.
3) This card is current not at innate stealth. Should it be?
4) Would making this card a trifle be too good? Aka "if successful, unlock this vampire"

Kraus wrote:

I was supposed to quote on the post and say that the latest iteration seems like a really nice idea; just, make sure that it does not overlap other Obfuscate cards that already work similarly. Obfuscate defense options should be super clunky. I would make it 0 stealth and definitely no unlock.

Thanks, I am unaware of an overlap. If you see something I missed please, let me know.

Also, actually this feels a lot like a Chimestry card.

Yeah, it occurred to me that we could turn this into an / for the same inferior effect. However, Chimestry does not need this since they have Illusions of the Kindred. In addition, Chimestry already has -stealth so they don't really need the superior text... and this card would be way more powerful in Ravnos hands since they already have access to path and unlock options since is in clan... plus they already have a breed/bleed mechanic with Week of Nightmares.

With and , the biggest abuse to me... would probably be Assamites or Gangrel Anti using a breed strategy and both of those are falling in the reasonable range to me.