file Submission: To the East

10 Feb 2019 17:03 - 11 Feb 2019 15:26 #93392 by jblacey
Name: To the East
Cardtype: Event
Cost: NA
Capacity: NA
Discipline: NA
Clan: NA

Gehenna. Cards may not target crypt cards or cards in the uncontrolled regions while this card is in play. During the influence phase, the active Methuselah may add a counter to this card, move a card of their choice from their crypt into their uncontrolled region, and gain +10 transfers. Burn this card when it has counters equal to the number of Methuselah.

Flavor text: "They have heard the call..." -Unknown

Art notes:

Nothing specific, the thematic is a horde of very old vampires rising from torpor.

World of Darkness reference:

This has multiple references in the Vampire cannon. The idea is that call is sent out and many older vampires in torpor have risen.

How does this card address a compelling game need?:

Originally, I was working an alternate rules format for a house game. The idea is that players could play a signature vampire, accelerate the game, and build a deck around them. I did not want this card to be a toy for bloat but I wanted something generic that worked regardless of clan, set, vampire/imbued, etc. The design is meant to allow all players one turn setup and is meant to be a universal and mostly neutral card, thus no disadvantage.

From a V:TES promotional aspect, I thought a card like this would be a great promo for the game. Maybe have an event, where all games start with a copy of this card in play. Yes, you could easily pull out one large vampire, but don't dismiss how good it would be to pull out multiple midrange vampires in one turn. That said, if there is a deck that is penalized by this card... it's weenies. Not directly, but because they lose the transfer advantage and crypt acceleration advantage they generally have.

Update:

To the East
:event:
This event may be played as a master phase action. During the influence phase, the active Methuselah may move a card of their choice from their crypt into their uncontrolled region, and gain +10 transfers. Each Methuselah may use this effect once and burn this card when all Methuselah have used it's effect.

Changes:
1. Added the ability to play it as a master phase action, so that it can benefit the active player first at the cost of master phase action, which seems reasonable cost since the effect is crypt acceleration. Should't be a rules problem right?
2. Each Methuselah can only gain it's effect once and then it burns. This also prevent cheating players from gaining the effect by ousting.
3. Removed Gehenna keyword.
4. Removed the non-targeting effect as it doesn't seem necessary and shortens the text. I was worried effects like Brainwash, Might of the Camarilla, some weird combo with Wider View or general crypt destruction, but since the effect allows the player to go get a crypt card seems less of an issue.

Could this card be effected by Sudden Reversal?

Master: out-of-turn.
Cancel a master card played by another Methuselah as it is played (no cost is paid).

I would assume not, since it isn't technically a master card, and I am unaware of any other implications on other rulings.

Do events normally check current state? Is it fine to say "burn this card when all Methuselah have used it's effect." So if players have been ousted it doesn't just stick around?


Update:

Changed the name to "To the East"
Last edit: 11 Feb 2019 15:26 by jblacey.

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10 Feb 2019 18:23 #93395 by jamesatzephyr

jblacey wrote: Gehenna. Cards may not target crypt cards or cards in the uncontrolled regions while this card is in play. During the influence phase, the active Methuselah may add a counter to this card, move a card of their choice from their crypt into their uncontrolled region, and gain +10 transfers. Burn this card when it has counters equal to the number of Methuselah.


I fear that this would be the sort of card that would be awesome if someone else played it. You may well get 2 midbies out of it (or whatever) - but the same opportunity extends to your prey and predator. If you know someone else on the table is packing this - perhaps because they've played it earlier in the tournament, for example - other players may prep for it slightly, such as drawing an extra card from their crypt occasionally, just in case.

On a more specific gripe, I'd prefer it wasn't Gehenna, to avoid facilitating cards like Recalled to the Founder, Fall of the Sabbat etc.

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10 Feb 2019 20:12 - 10 Feb 2019 20:15 #93397 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Submission: To the East

jamesatzephyr wrote:

jblacey wrote: Gehenna. Cards may not target crypt cards or cards in the uncontrolled regions while this card is in play. During the influence phase, the active Methuselah may add a counter to this card, move a card of their choice from their crypt into their uncontrolled region, and gain +10 transfers. Burn this card when it has counters equal to the number of Methuselah.


I fear that this would be the sort of card that would be awesome if someone else played it. You may well get 2 midbies out of it (or whatever) - but the same opportunity extends to your prey and predator. If you know someone else on the table is packing this - perhaps because they've played it earlier in the tournament, for example - other players may prep for it slightly, such as drawing an extra card from their crypt occasionally, just in case.

On a more specific gripe, I'd prefer it wasn't Gehenna, to avoid facilitating cards like Recalled to the Founder, Fall of the Sabbat etc.


Realistically, each player should get one use out if it. It could be a requirement, instead of "may". It doesn't have to be Gehenna. Just seemed like a reasonable key word.
Last edit: 10 Feb 2019 20:15 by jblacey.

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10 Feb 2019 23:58 #93403 by self biased
Replied by self biased on topic Submission: To the East

jblacey wrote: From a V:TES promotional aspect, I thought a card like this would be a great promo for the game. Maybe have an event, where all games start with a copy of this card in play.


for what it's worth, I am super duper not a fan of promo cards with powerful exclusive effects. I've seen access to some promo cards prove to be an issue in an old group I played with, and consequently drove a few people out because of it. I vastly prefer alternate art/layout style promos, especially since the game is no longer a true CCG. that's just me though.

As a critique of the card effect, it's not bad, but James raises a salient point as always. perhaps the language can be changed to reflect it being only one vampire?

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11 Feb 2019 13:37 #93412 by LivesByProxy
What this card is named vs what this card actually does are completely opposite IMO. Whispers are quiet and subtle, a sleeping vampire who was hearing the call of the blood and their elders would stir slowly, not suddenly bolt upright awake (which is what this card does.) The effect proposed is that of an alarm clock going off, or someone shouting "WAKE UP!"

Relevant :
(I like to think this is Uncle Phil from the Fresh Prince.)

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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11 Feb 2019 14:21 #93413 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Submission: To the East
The Whispers
:event:
This event may be played as a master phase action. During the influence phase, the active Methuselah may move a card of their choice from their crypt into their uncontrolled region, and gain +10 transfers. Each Methuselah may use this effect once and burn this card when all Methuselah have used it's effect.

Adding another post with details on the changes.

Changes:
1. Added the ability to play it as a master phase action, so that it can benefit the active player first at the cost of master phase action, which seems reasonable cost since the effect is crypt acceleration. Should't be a rules problem right?
2. Each Methuselah can only gain it's effect once and then it burns. This also prevent cheating players from gaining the effect by ousting.
3. Removed Gehenna keyword.
4. Removed the non-targeting effect as it doesn't seem necessary and shortens the text. I was worried effects like Brainwash, Might of the Camarilla, some weird combo with Wider View or general crypt destruction, but since the effect allows the player to go get a crypt card seems less of an issue.

Could this card be effected by Sudden Reversal?

Master: out-of-turn.
Cancel a master card played by another Methuselah as it is played (no cost is paid).

I would assume not, since it isn't technically a master card, and I am unaware of any other implications on other rulings.

Do events normally check current state? Is it fine to say "burn this card when all Methuselah have used it's effect." So if players have been ousted it doesn't just stick around?

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