Nosferatu - Give them some love...

Molloy wrote:

Dossier: Prey
Action. Requires Nosferatu.
Put this card into play and move one card from your prey's ash heap to this card. Any ready Nosferatu you control can take an action to remove from the game X copies of that card from your prey's ash heap to make your prey burn X pool. X must be 1, 2, or 3.

Well, I think it's too MTG-ish and it's too strong. This can kill whole deck strategy, e.g. Emerald Legionnaire, Ashur Tablets/Liquidation, Shambling Hordes... I'm ok with removing one card, but not all.

My suggestion in that direction would be something like this:

Hunting for Irregularities
Political action
Playable by any vampire. Requires a Nosferatu under your control.
Select one or more Methuselahs. Successful referendum means: Remove one Action card from the game from each Selected Methuselah' ashheap. The owners of those cards burn 2 pool.

Lech wrote:

Wasn't EC just won by Nosferatu without auspex and dominate?

Yes, good deck, Cock Robin and friends. And why it is good? Because of the possibility of multi-acting
I'm trying to say that it would be better if we wouldn't have to make this type of Nosferatu deck just around Cock Robin and Baron Dieudonne.

Palamedes wrote:

Lech wrote:

Wasn't EC just won by Nosferatu without auspex and dominate?

Yes, good deck, Cock Robin and friends. And why it is good? Because of the possibility of multi-acting
I'm trying to say that it would be better if we wouldn't have to make this type of Nosferatu deck just around Cock Robin and Baron Dieudonne.

Um, it uses just ANI OBF POT, and Warsaw Station adds multiaction. Since camarilla is mostly known for power titles, it's no surprise they use said titles.

To be fair, the deck skip potence nearly entirely which shows that it's not nosferatu who need love, but more like potence which needs love. It's sad that Nosferatu skips potence, Lasombra skips potence, Brujah skips potence or celerity, Giovanni skips potence ...

But going to Nosferatu, it's mainly because there are group 1/2 with OBF/(AUS), 3-4 with OBF/ANI and g5 with OBF/DOM. Sure, you can go g1-2 with OBF/POT/AUS, but you are better off skipping potence entirely.

You obviously already know, but - beside Warsaw Station - Cock Robin and Baron Dieudonne gives multiaction, and they are more important in this deck.

I like POT, but POT combat module needs a lot of cards to be truly effective.
Nosferatu usually cannot afford it, because other things take up a lot of space. ANI module is simply smaller.
Lasombra lack the discipline to support POT, and they have Govern/Deflect/Stealth/SC:E, which is "enough" effective.
Brujah - I never skip the POT in Brujah B) ... except in political-only decks when other cards takes too much space.
I didn't play Giovanni enough to say anything about.

Last week I played weenie bleed/rush mono-pot deck and it did the job well.

Palamedes wrote:

You obviously already know, but - beside Warsaw Station - Cock Robin and Baron Dieudonne gives multiaction, and they are more important in this deck.[./quote] Vampires are, by default, more important than even the best unique library card. While those vampires have useful specials, it's kind of obvious that big capacity vampires have good specials.

Palamedes wrote:

I like POT, but POT combat module needs a lot of cards to be truly effective.

Lot of moving part and usually also support discipline, in best case FOR, but then you are paying two disciplines for combat module and while FOR bring also multiacting and clutch oust option, POT bring nothing at all outside combat (ok, it bring tangle's AH, but not many people have it.

Palamedes wrote:

Nosferatu usually cannot afford it, because other things take up a lot of space. ANI module is simply smaller.

It's safer (ranged, avoid a lot of hitback) and deal more damage per card spent, and don't get hosed by multiple cards (need different prevent cards).

Palamedes wrote:

Lasombra lack the discipline to support POT, and they have Govern/Deflect/Stealth/SC:E, which is "enough" effective.

It isn't entirely true, right now they have discipline to support POT, problem is, it require POT OBT dom/DOM, which is reserved for big capacity vampires, and they don't have any passive damage enchants, no vampires with additional damage, no vampires with worthy combat special, no vampires with rush specials, no vampires that benefit from burned/torpored vampires.

Palamedes wrote:

Brujah - I never skip the POT in Brujah B) ... except in political-only decks when other cards takes too much space.
I didn't play Giovanni enough to say anything about.

That's what i meant, most good Brujah decks use PRE obf/OBF with bit of celerity sometimes for extra stealth.

Palamedes wrote:

Last week I played weenie bleed/rush mono-pot deck and it did the job well.

So does Tupdogs, but those don't have really problems and are overstatted AF.
When it comes to weenie bleed/rush, it's by design good, be it AUS, ANI, POT, PRE, DOM, CEL, so while props for bringing in weenie potence, it doesn't mean it's decent in most decks.

In TWDA, there are two decks with Immortal Grapple in 2019 and over 30 with Dominate. It speaks volumes.

Also, nearly every deck that includes vampires with dom/DOM play some of it's cards - like for example surprise conditioning or deflection module. If deck have some OBF, there are often some stealth cards. If there are AUS, Telepatic Misdirection is sometimes added in low quantities. But if entire crypt have pot/POT, it got simply ignored most of the times. There is simply no card you want to add, except odd 1-off Preternatural in some cases.but even then it's simpler to add weapon instead like ivory bow.

CEL is in similar situation, improved a bit by recent dual-discipline cards (IT, FM) and in Unnamed deck for untap - and it have cel-gun combat module that is quite good. Perhaps some deck will also use zephyr, but i hav my doubts - also have no power card.

Quite an interesting topic here!

As a long time Nosferatu player, I do agree with the initial statement about clan power. In my opinion, it may be due to the fact that disciplines do not combine so well. When I try to make a deck, I usually find myself discarding one of them, either obf in combat decks, or pot in multiaction or powerbleeding.


Don´t you hink there is a good Nos combat deck with a G1-G2 crypt?
Ani+Pot+For can be a killing/surviving machine, and many titled vampires in that crypt can afford it. I have played such a deck and feels like it does have what it takes to beat any deck in combat. And with some other ani cards, it seems like it can somehow press your prey better than other combat decks (deep song and army of rats being added to fame or tension in the ranks...)

Of course, it is not a straight winner, but that may be a characteristic that shares with any other combat deck in the game.

This kind of deck can be built also in G2-G3 with Robin and Vermuelen. Robin dependant? Yes. I agree. Lately, I am adding a gangrel prince there to round up the combination.

On the other side, I do agree with the multi-action engine being cool, and maybe just 1 card more in that pool could be enough.

What I would absolutely love is some some efficient card in the spying theme. That is definitely a Nos theme, and it would be great news for me if we see some development in that direction.

Did I read Nos as won EC? Can I see it somewhere?