file [Submission] !Tremere and Thaumaturgy cards

15 Mar 2020 09:33 #99313 by Ankha
Infernal Jury
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Tremere antitribu
Unique demon with 3 life. 0 bleed, 0 strength.
You get +3 votes during referendums.

Relocation
Cardtype: Action modifier
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
[tha] +1 stealth.
[THA] Only usable during an undirected action. +2 stealth.

Forcefield
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable before range is determined.
[tha] Put this card in play. During each round before range is determined, add 1 counter on this card. You can burn 1 counter from this card to have a strike or damaging effect made against this vampire inflict 1 less damage. Burn this card at the end of combat.
[THA] As above, but this card is put in play with 1 counter.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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15 Mar 2020 10:45 #99314 by Kiddo
The first two I like a lot. Not too powerful and I really like political angle for !Tremeres.

Forecefield might be on the weaker side, perhaps? I'm not quite sure. Perhaps if sup effect would be to last a bit longer (like until the next untap phase).

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15 Mar 2020 16:23 #99321 by Ankha

Kiddo wrote: The first two I like a lot. Not too powerful and I really like political angle for !Tremeres.

Forecefield might be on the weaker side, perhaps? I'm not quite sure. Perhaps if sup effect would be to last a bit longer (like until the next untap phase).

Well, it opens possibilities such as Weather Control or a simple Trap. I didn't want it to be better than Apparition for instance.

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15 Mar 2020 17:07 #99322 by Kilrauko

Ankha wrote: Infernal Jury
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Tremere antitribu
Unique demon with 3 life. 0 bleed, 0 strength.
You get +3 votes during referendums.


Should cost either 1 pool (to be in line with Ventrue HQ or baali infernal servitor) or x (up to three) blood to have X amount of votes. Also whether or not it's "fair" to have a ally that's worth a Justicar/Cardinal/Prisci block in entirity for every vote without tapping like the Ventrue HQ is something I'm not quite so sure. Especially when it says referendum and blood hunts are referendums. Now if the clan in question didn't have easy access to aggravated damage that is either unpreventable or auto-torpor with Rötschreck it might be fair. And amaranth was not a disciplineless card. But as that's not the case it might be prudent to change to +3 votes during political actions or lock to get +3 votes during referendum, if the referendum ties (rules have concept of a tied referendum) do not unlock the Infernal Jury normally during your next untap phase (hung jury). Or if more flavour is needed have the referendum start again on tied referendum to signify how certain nations have a retrial on hung jury cases. I'm sure the blocked bewitching votecapper is happy to play none of their action modifiers again as it's still the same action... while the Infernal Jury either can or cannot provide their votes again.

Ankha wrote: Relocation
Cardtype: Action modifier
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
[tha] +1 stealth.
[THA] Only usable during an undirected action. +2 stealth.


Before Mirror Walk it could be argued that Dom/Tha/Aus had stealth weakness, then it was printed and suddenly being blocked was not so bad anymore. Hence I see no problem with this even if it grants DOM/tha bleeders access to bleed 6 with +2 stealth. That might get disciplineless Pack Tactics and Elder intervention see some play for decks that cannot bounce it onward. It's also beyond the scope of early Imbued(without locations or unmasking) or outside the Ally horde (unmasking only) decks. If the new Malks will be Dom+Obf instead Dementation, I see no reason to have this as well.

Ankha wrote: Forcefield
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable before range is determined.
[tha] Put this card in play. During each round before range is determined, add 1 counter on this card. You can burn 1 counter from this card to have a strike or damaging effect made against this vampire inflict 1 less damage. Burn this card at the end of combat.
[THA] As above, but this card is put in play with 1 counter.

Kiddo wrote: Forecefield might be on the weaker side, perhaps? I'm not quite sure. Perhaps if sup effect would be to last a bit longer (like until the next untap phase).


On the contrary, the Forcefield is too potent, as it reduces the damage, meaning it can handle damage that is considered unpreventable and grants each turn a superior version of a glancing blow that is replaced when played to a discipline that has hard time dealing with aggro poke otherwise. What's more it means the previous two disciplines superior Dawn operation+Weather control/Burst of Sunlight + Skin of Night followed by Amaranth gets tuned down to be turn 1 superior thaumaturgy trick with three cards and one disclipline. Glancing blow specifies opposing minion's strike so it won't work against your own inferior Burst.

For a discipline with famed mechanic to supposedly press and have powerful second round, this card provides two damage reductions. On round 1 it provides 0 with inferior, 1 with superior. On round 3 it provides 3. Does not scale quite like the weather control. If I'm honest, I would be fine with the card if it was prevent against enemy sources (strikes or enviromental) during combat. As while it can be argued thematically that the blood used (oh wait it does not use blood) to create the shield blocks the burst of sunlight from the candle at the controller, how it also affects cards like;

Name: Psychic Assault
[SoC:C]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Auspex
[aus] Strike: 1R damage. Any effect which would make damage from this strike aggravated leaves the damage normal instead. If this striking vampire is Black Hand, the damage from this strike is unpreventable.
[AUS] As above, but for 2R damage.
Artist: Heather Kreiter

or

Name: Drawing Out the Beast
[Jyhad:C, VTES:C, SW:PT, FN:PR, CE:C, Anarchs:PG2, BH:PN3, Third:PTz3]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Animalism
Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Frenzy.
[ani] During this combat, opposing vampire gets +1 strength, but he or she cannot use maneuvers to maneuver to long range, cannot use presses to end combat and cannot use equipment. A vampire may play only one Drawing Out the Beast each combat.
[ANI] As above, and the opposing vampire takes 1 unpreventable damage during the press step each round.
Artist: Bryon Wackwitz


Where the unpreventable damage is used to show something that happens inside the vampire or minion to a higher degree of damage. For Weather control it's the same, very few vampires like to have miniature lightning in their nervous system. So yeah, prevent, from opposing sources and I'm fine if it's upped to work like Weather control meaning the amount of counters on it increases each turn, meaning superior 1 on first turn, (x)+2 on the second, (x)+3 on the third etc where (x) marks the various amounts of counters left from the previous rounds. It might encourage people to play more press thaumaturgy. Whatever you do do not make it last longer, as that opens cheap Rutor's hand kind of shenigans if one has managed to gather counters on it as nothing in it's current text limits the usage to combat only, it specifically says "You can burn 1 counter from this card to have a strike or damaging effect made against this vampire inflict 1 less damage." To my understanding inferior Rutor's hand 1 aggr is damage source. As is shattering crescendo and so forth. The Current champion of reducing damage, Nephandus, has their power limited to be inside combat only and only for opposing minion. I can predict it was somewhat inspirational but for pointed things this is too superior compared to Nephandi's ability.

Then again I might be wrong, perhaps what this game needs is more Dawn operation, Weather control, Forcefield (and amaranth) combat. People already love the Domain of Evernight, Outside the hourglass (and amaranth) combat. The Weakness of not having votes to prevent burn for True Brujah on the diablerie is also handled with the earlier card...

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka

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16 Mar 2020 19:47 #99341 by self biased

Ankha wrote: Forcefield
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable before range is determined.
[tha] Put this card in play. During each round before range is determined, add 1 counter on this card. You can burn 1 counter from this card to have a strike or damaging effect made against this vampire inflict 1 less damage. Burn this card at the end of combat.
[THA] As above, but this card is put in play with 1 counter.

Kilrauko wrote: On the contrary, the Forcefield is too potent, as it reduces the damage, meaning it can handle damage that is considered unpreventable and grants each turn a superior version of a glancing blow that is replaced when played to a discipline that has hard time dealing with aggro poke otherwise. What's more it means the previous two disciplines superior Dawn operation+Weather control/Burst of Sunlight + Skin of Night followed by Amaranth gets tuned down to be turn 1 superior thaumaturgy trick with three cards and one disclipline. Glancing blow specifies opposing minion's strike so it won't work against your own inferior Burst.


well put, Kilrauko. I also have concerns about having what is essentially damage prevention without technically being damage prevention.

Kilrauko wrote: For a discipline with famed mechanic to supposedly press and have powerful second round, this card provides two damage reductions. On round 1 it provides 0 with inferior, 1 with superior. On round 3 it provides 3. Does not scale quite like the weather control. If I'm honest, I would be fine with the card if it was prevent against enemy sources (strikes or enviromental) during combat. As while it can be argued thematically that the blood used (oh wait it does not use blood) to create the shield blocks the burst of sunlight from the candle at the controller, how it also affects cards like;


Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but the card is put into play during the so-called "Pre-Range" step, and can still have a counter placed on it because it's still that same timing window. I can play a blood doll and use it immediately because it's still my master phase after I play it. this is the same thing, right?

Personally, I think I would rather see something like this:


Forcefield
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable before range is determined.
[tha] Put this card in play with three counters. You may burn a counter to cancel a Maneuver used by an opposing minion. Burn this card at the end of combat.
[THA] As above, but you may also burn a counter to cancel a Press.

I think that mucking around with maneuvers and presses gives more of a 'force field-y' feeling to the card. Also, it provides more flexibility without being a flood of maneuvers itself.

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16 Mar 2020 19:57 #99343 by Lech

self biased wrote: Forcefield
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Only usable before range is determined.
[tha] Put this card in play with three counters. You may burn a counter to cancel a Maneuver used by an opposing minion. Burn this card at the end of combat.
[THA] As above, but you may also burn a counter to cancel a Press.

I think that mucking around with maneuvers and presses gives more of a 'force field-y' feeling to the card. Also, it provides more flexibility without being a flood of maneuvers itself.


That sound more like celerity effect.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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