Proxies and the VEKN

So the biggest question then is:

Is the list of cards worth proxying sufficiently short that we should consider heading down this road?

What facts do we consider in that process?
- Average number used in a deck
- Average number of card X per box
- Number of years since Set Y was in stock
- Is the available for purchase in Boosters/Starters currently?
- Do a number of people agree that the secondary market price is too high for a card that is to be used frequently?
- Has the card been reprinted?
- Do specific decks require large numbers of that card, potentially more than are available to players in their local playgroup?
- The likelihood that other people will trade Card X.


I'd like to know where the line will be drawn, and what we will consider in drawing the line. It comes down to a decision, and I still think that the best line (copyright issues resolving in our favour) would be to allow infinite reprints from limited authorised sellers instead.

On another note, this could become an interesting alternative option for a LCG-style incarnation of VTES - DIY Boosters. The Publisher of VTES could create a list of Commons, Uncommons, Vampire and Rare rarity cards and then players could go to Site XYZ and order cards to be printed that fall into The Publisher's Ratio of Cards (e.g. You have to buy the same number of commons of your choice as currently turn up in a booster, if you want more rares you have to order more uncommons, vampires and commons)

Another suggestion:

I remember Eric Chiang asking in the newsgroup sometime ago which promo's were the most sought after, in order for that to be taken into consideration when providing promo's to VEKN-supported tournaments.

I think we all know which cards are on the top of most players' want lists, and though it's difficult to draw an exact line, villein, enkil cog, liquidation & tablets etc will definately fall into the too-rare-for-most non-diehard-vtes-players-out-there-category.
Perhaps the VEKN, with permission of cccp or whoever currently holds the rights, could provide tournamentplayers with promo versions of those sought-after cards ? That way, those cards will become readily available to most. It would (i believe) provide a significant boost for competative play, since it will attract a lot of players if they know the can get this or that card simply by showing up, which is good for the Vtes-community as a whole, it won't interfere with copyrights, and avoid practical problems like how a proxy should look like, picking out 'official' vendors, or the negative stimulans proxies would mean for retailers carrying vtes now and in the possible future, and all those kind of problems people talk about in here and on the NG when considering allowing proxies.

Of course, i don't know if there's any possibility at all for printing future VEKN prize-support, and (if that possibilty exists) whether there's a possiblity of printing non-promos as promo's, but there you go, my 2 cents.

- Thomas

Or one of the various interested parties in the rights sees if they can cut a deal to print one set, and then make a Blood Shadowed Court 'Most Wanted' starter display of the cards everyone always wanted and will now be never able to get.

They could even avoid distribution / LGS shenanigans by making them bought through their respective website, and used as prize support for the National Coordinators.

This is all very pie in the sky, though.

I am and always will be against proxies in official events.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

So the biggest question then is:
Is the list of cards worth proxying sufficiently short that we should consider heading down this road?

That is very unlikely. Once this can of worm gets opened, the list of "cards that should be legally allowed as official proxies" will grow and spiral out of control. As what does or does not constitute a list of "cards that are in high demand and limited supply" will be extremely fluid.

bakija wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

So the biggest question then is:
Is the list of cards worth proxying sufficiently short that we should consider heading down this road?

That is very unlikely. Once this can of worm gets opened, the list of "cards that should be legally allowed as official proxies" will grow and spiral out of control. As what does or does not constitute a list of "cards that are in high demand and limited supply" will be extremely fluid.

No it won't. The slippery slope is called a fallacy for a reason. The ruling body doesn't need absolute mathematical accuracy to make a good judgment call. We don't need to blindly follow that call to the end of the world. Just like banning Memories of Mortality was a good call and didn't spiral out of hand even though there's no absolute proof that it's the right call.