Blitz Round of Playtest Drawing to a Close

Wookie813 wrote:

Putting it out there for people to use has little downside. Worst case scenario, folks have fun with them in casual play and unofficial tournaments. Best case scenario, the player base loves it to the point that they pressure the VEKN hard enough to force it to "official" status.

What is the definition of "pressure the VEKN hard enough"?

I find it interesting that there is a correlation -- at least in print on the VEKN forums -- between those associated with Jeff/Eric/Carl's alternate set and those who are for the use of force as a means to one's ends.

KevinM wrote:

I find it interesting that there is a correlation -- at least in print on the VEKN forums -- between those associated with Jeff/Eric/Carl's alternate set and those who are for the use of force as a means to one's ends.

It's only logical, the VEKN have dictated their position to them, and only pressure could make it change its opinion. Don't say you would accept apologies or negociations after the way some of them were kicked out of the IC.

And, like it or not, but in the hypothetical case where their set is extremely good and widely praised, and the official one is kind of crappish, then you will have one hell of a pressure to recognize your error. But then, it's up to the VEKN to not let us down.

Ohlmann wrote:

KevinM wrote:

I find it interesting that there is a correlation -- at least in print on the VEKN forums -- between those associated with Jeff/Eric/Carl's alternate set and those who are for the use of force as a means to one's ends.

It's only logical, the VEKN have dictated their position to them, and only pressure could make it change its opinion. Don't say you would accept apologies or negociations after the way some of them were kicked out of the IC.

Let's remember that it was J/E/C that chose to go public, that it was J/E/C that made their own situation untenable, declaring that they could no longer work under the current system and regime. All that happened BEFORE the VEKN said ANYTHING publicly regarding them, their positions within the VEKN, and the possible disposition of "their" cards.

Ohlmann wrote:

And, like it or not, but in the hypothetical case where their set is extremely good and widely praised, and the official one is kind of crappish, then you will have one hell of a pressure to recognize your error. But then, it's up to the VEKN to not let us down.

See, I don't understand how this argument has any validity in people's eyes, because it has a false foundation.

Their cards won't be put up for comparison. Their cards won't be placed in the public view for possible inclusion into any future VEKN set or real printing. Their cards won't be considered legitimate any more than any other fan set. Take a look on Lasombra's fan made cards page -- how many of those cards got made? Take a look at the history of the newsgroup, and this forum -- how many of those cards got made?

The truth is that when J/E/C made the decisions that they made, they started a series of events that, at their very core, made two things almost certain: the likelihood of "their" cards becoming legal for tournament play became all but impossible, and they removed themselves (or caused their selves to have to be removed) from the very system that was able to legitimize their cards and causes.

When one creates a self-fulfilling prophecy and then uses it as an excuse for the bad behavior of The Other, it's not brilliant or prophetic or something to be looked at in awe. It's a great loss.

KevinM wrote:

Their cards won't be put up for comparison. Their cards won't be placed in the public view for possible inclusion into any future VEKN set or real printing. Their cards won't be considered legitimate any more than any other fan set.

I think that those who want to find this set will. Those who want to play it, will. There's a chance, albeit a small one, that it could grow some legs.

I don't disagree with you that the VEKN won't regard this set any more than the dozen cards I made in 1997 to represent the player characters in my V:tM chronicle.

I do believe, however, that if at some point a fan set gained widespread popularity to the point that events were being run 'unofficially' solely to include said set, forums were inundated with deck lists and threads discussing the cards in said set, etc, it could lead to a best case scenario discussion.

Likely? No. Possible? Maybe.

Take a look on Lasombra's fan made cards page -- how many of those cards got made? Take a look at the history of the newsgroup, and this forum -- how many of those cards got made?

I believe the circumstances are different in this case. When a for-profit company is printing cards for purchase, anything somebody photoshops and prints at home is irrelevant. In the current atmosphere, you never know.

I, for one, am honestly very interested in seeing the splinter set.

KevinM wrote:

Wookie813 wrote:

Putting it out there for people to use has little downside. Worst case scenario, folks have fun with them in casual play and unofficial tournaments. Best case scenario, the player base loves it to the point that they pressure the VEKN hard enough to force it to "official" status.

What is the definition of "pressure the VEKN hard enough"?

I find it interesting that there is a correlation -- at least in print on the VEKN forums -- between those associated with Jeff/Eric/Carl's alternate set and those who are for the use of force as a means to one's ends.

With a complete lack of corporate backing, if the player base overwhelmingly supports something, the VEKN is going to endorse it, or render themselves irrelevant.

I don't think anybody is going to be threatening boycotts or stuffing bananas in tailpipes to try to persuade particular courses of action out of anybody.

I use "force" in the same way that my waiter is forced to bring me a Coke when I order it. It's his job. If he doesn't do it well, the manager will find someone else to do it.

In the same way, if a fan set were so stupidly good and everybody loved it and wanted to play it and there were no real printed cards coming out again ever anyway and the only thing keeping it from being official were a few nods from some volunteers, then, yeah, I'd say they'd be forced to do it, assuming they wanted anybody in the community to continue ever giving a flaming hoot what they said, ever.

Likely? No. Possible? Maybe.

KevinM wrote:

Their cards won't be put up for comparison. Their cards won't be placed in the public view for possible inclusion into any future VEKN set or real printing. Their cards won't be considered legitimate any more than any other fan set. Take a look on Lasombra's fan made cards page -- how many of those cards got made? Take a look at the history of the newsgroup, and this forum -- how many of those cards got made?

You will censor the internet so peoples don't look at them ? Unlike other set they have quite a lot of publicity and a significant bit of legitimacy already.

The only defence you have against that is to do a really good job. It's possible. But you have gone so far in the hate against three peoples that you will feel the heat if they are right - and players will see "right" by looking at the card. If you had ignored them perhaps I and a lot of players wouldn't be that interested. But the personal hate and jerkish moves against them have stirred interests.