lightbulb Library card redesign

22 Aug 2016 04:51 #77974 by DShrike
Replied by DShrike on topic Library card redesign

Overall, borders are solid when it comes to Actions, Modifiers and Combat. Reaction doesn't look good. Ally looks so-so.


I also agree with this. The purple sidebar for reactions looks weird to me.

I'm also interested in why the pool cost icon is different to the original? In the new layout the skull icon is much smaller.

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Prince of Townsville, Australia

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23 Aug 2016 06:36 - 23 Aug 2016 06:37 #77994 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic Library card redesign

I'm also interested in why the pool cost icon is different to the original? In the new layout the skull icon is much smaller.


To be fair, pool costs looks familiar enough for me. It's not pixel perfect, but most people wouldn't even see the difference unlike aforementioned reaction borders.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
Last edit: 23 Aug 2016 06:37 by Lech.

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23 Aug 2016 10:35 #77997 by Damnans
Replied by Damnans on topic Library card redesign
Here is my feedback on Ke's new library card layout:

1. Some library cards look like crypt cards (see Bum's Rush below). I think it is important that both main card types can be easily distinguished from each other.



2. The amount of text space you gain by overlapping the side bar with the text boxes is, in my opinion, wasted again with the use of the requirement symbols in a way that keeps the alignment of the text where it was with the official layout.

So why not just adapting the size of requirement (and also card type) symbols to the size of the text font? Something along these lines:

Fata Amria

:chi: :combat: Strike: put this card on the opposing vampire; this cannot be dodged. The vampire with this card cannot play cards that require any superior Disciplines. He or she may burn this card during his or her untap phase instead of untapping.
:CHI: :reaction: As above, but put on the acting vampire after a successful (D) action directed at you (after resolving the action).

3. The use of different font sizes in the various text boxes does not look professional.

4. The area for the artwork should not be variable, because, in order to produce optimal results, artists need to know how their illustrations are going to look on the final card.

5. The fact that the artwork stretches from the top to the bottom of the card, and that it is partially covered by the two text boxes, makes it difficult for the artist to conceive an illustration that does not get harmed by that fact. Moving the text box to the lower end of the card and placing the artist's name elsewhere could be a suitable solution.

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23 Aug 2016 15:15 - 23 Aug 2016 15:17 #77998 by Yomyael
Replied by Yomyael on topic Library card redesign
With some cards (e.g. Domain of Evernight, Breath of Thanatos) I have problems reading it's name. It feels too undistinguishable from the artwork.

Prince of Bonn, Germany
Last edit: 23 Aug 2016 15:17 by Yomyael.

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24 Aug 2016 05:59 - 24 Aug 2016 09:50 #78005 by Ke.
Replied by Ke. on topic Library card redesign

1. Some library cards look like crypt cards (see Bum's Rush below). I think it is important that both main card types can be easily distinguished from each other.


I've never heard of a player being confused by crypt and library cards — they occupy completely different physical spaces.

If it turns out to be that difficult; all you need to do is look for the capacity icon.



2. The amount of text space you gain by overlapping the side bar with the text boxes is, in my opinion, wasted again with the use of the requirement symbols in a way that keeps the alignment of the text where it was with the official layout.


The amount of text area available is * far * greater than the current cards. Keeping the requirements icon separate as they are keeps the bar clear of clutter in the players hand (only showing the icons). It also keeps the requirements separate from content that also includes other icons, ie:



So why not just adapting the size of requirement (and also card type) symbols to the size of the text font? Something along these lines.


I think it's important to maintain the separate boxes for separate effects as it leaves no doubt in the players mind about the distinction between the effects.

Wrapping the text around the requirements icon would look rubbish and also lead to weird layout randomness. ie, a card where one effect wraps but the over doesn't:



And that's not even factoring cards with 3 - 4 effects.

If anything * lack * of content is the issue — filling to hit the artwork ratio. So there is no need to try and cram all the text and icons together.

3. The use of different font sizes in the various text boxes does not look professional.


There is only the possibility of 2 different font sizes in card text — and that only occurs when there is an opportunity to uniformly increase font size without increasing the size of the box / wrapping text. I would argue that in this scenario it's more important to increase readability than anything else:



Does the above really look unprofessional? or is one box just easier to read?

4. The area for the artwork should not be variable, because, in order to produce optimal results, artists need to know how their illustrations are going to look on the final card.


This design was designed to work with current artwork and it does. The specifications for artwork size can remain the same. The layout will aim to match the current ratio where possible. Where is is unable due to lack of content or similar it uses the artwork as the source to fill the empty area. If absolutely required on cards where there is not enough content to hit the ration we could use flavour text to fill — however I think this is overkill.



I think it's near impossible to rationally argue that the old cards above are easier to read and understand compared to the new.

5. The fact that the artwork stretches from the top to the bottom of the card, and that it is partially covered by the two text boxes, makes it difficult for the artist to conceive an illustration that does not get harmed by that fact. Moving the text box to the lower end of the card and placing the artist's name elsewhere could be a suitable solution.


This is incorrect. The artwork does not stretch from the top of the card to the bottom. The original artwork remains intact and is positioned in almost an identical fashion to the current cards, except it's scaled slightly to make use of the increased space (see above). In the situation where the layout is unable to make the textual content large enough without it looking crap; the layout will fill the extra content sourced from the original artwork.

It's possible to have the layout aggressive pad and enlarge the text; however I would argue that it just looks crap:



Here are a few more cards where the system expands on the artwork:









Again we are never going to achieve 100% perfection without someone manually laying out and sourcing artwork for all 3700 cards — and that is unlikely to happen any time soon.

That said; I have visually scanned all 3,700 cards and corrected any with obvious flaws. Correcting them is simple; becoming aware of the issue less so. We can crowd source a review of the cards and highlight any issues — more on that later.

I would argue that this is a great improvement on the current randomness of the card set and the best we're going to have for some time to come.

It brings consistency where there is none; it pulls the cards into the modern design era, vastly increases clarity and ease of understanding for new players.

We're in the final round of bug testing for a tool that will allow all players to test the new design. From there more feedback would be appreciated...
Last edit: 24 Aug 2016 09:50 by Ke.. Reason: Typos
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, self biased, DShrike

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24 Aug 2016 12:27 - 24 Aug 2016 12:27 #78006 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Library card redesign

This is incorrect. The artwork does not stretch from the top of the card to the bottom. The original artwork remains intact and is positioned in almost an identical fashion to the current cards, except it's scaled slightly to make use of the increased space (see above).


So, say I'm the Design Team(*) and I'm creating a brand new card, Powerbase: Wichita. We are not currently certain what the final text will be - and there are certainly examples in the past where a card changes quite a lot in terms of its text during playtest, for power reasons, to make it less fiddly, to make it more useful, or whatever.

When I'm sourcing art - which can take a while, especially currently where most (all?) of it is being sourced through favours etc., so an artist might reasonably put well-paid work first - what parameters do I give the designer to tell them what shape/aspect ratio their picture should be? If it turns out that I need to put a line or two extra of text on the card, that might obliterate the neat little touches that the artist has put at the bottom of the shape. If I have to adjust the aspect ratio, it might push something off the side. Do I have to tell them to design to a certain minimum size, and that everything outside that might or might not appear?

That doesn't seem like a fun way to be trying to source art for an expansion.

(*) I'm not.
Last edit: 24 Aug 2016 12:27 by jamesatzephyr.

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