ReVamping VTES?

ReverendRevolver wrote:

I would strongly encourage you to play some vtes before asking some of the questions/making suggestion.

I'm actually very interested in comments and feedback about the game by someone who has never played it.

Consider that V:TES was one of the earliest CCGs and there was a lot to be learned and developed in that genre. Also consider that the gaming market and expectations of games by players had not yet matured to the point they're at now. When V:TES was first released, it was very much a do-it-yourself environment. You had to come up with counters on your own. You had to come up with your own edge marker. There weren't playable decks available until White Wolf took over with Sabbat War - just random booster and starter packs. Quite simply, there was no "everything you need to play in one box" product. Today when you publish a game, there is very much the expectation that everything needed to play will be provided.

For example, as part of the attempt by DriveThruCards to get V:TES back in print, I helped design a playable boxed set, with everything you need to play. 5 pre-built decks, counters, edge marker, packaging. Something I realized when I was working on this was that you'd need at least 150 counters. It got me wondering if the product I was designing was really just a terrarium's worth of glass beads. I could just imagine someone new to the game opening the box and wondering what on earth was up with all the counters. Not to mention the cost of the counters plus the weight, and the resulting addtional costs for shipping due to the weight.

I personally have no interest in doing a complete redesign of V:TES (or a CCG about the World of Darkness as a whole), but if I did, I'd definitely get rid of the counters. As for work on V:TES, I'd love to get feedback on initial impressions of the game from someone who's coming into it from today's game market and expectations.


- Ben Peal (VEKN Design Team Leader)

ReverendRevolver wrote:

I would strongly encourage you to play some vtes before asking some of the questions/making suggestion.

SO MUCH this! ^^

Thorugh this site you should be able to locate a helpful playgroup or two withing at least fairly easy reach. Also card availability ainät a problem, with teh exception of few high profile torunaments VTES currently allows proxies, so all cards are available to all players in any quantities.


And Ben, counters do not need to be glass beads.
Obviously they can be made of some lighter material.
Heck, add a sheet of cardboard that players can to cut to make some counters... not much weight (or classfor that matter) there

BenPeal wrote:

...I'd get rid of the counters

Yes. A thousand times yes. The amount of counters needed makes the game look ridiculous to newcomers. It's a problem I've run into.

The amount of counters and the amount of players needed are the biggest issues with this game. It needs a two-player format, which would cut down both.

About the counters: A friend of mine uses nuts from a property market and for a boxed set, why not use cardboard printed counters, they take less place and are light so the box is not that heavy

ur_vampire wrote:

About the counters: A friend of mine uses nuts from a property market and for a boxed set, why not use cardboard printed counters, they take less place and are light so the box is not that heavy

It's not really the weight and size of the counters that's the issue. It's how cumbersome having ~180 of any individual thing to drag around for a game is. That's just too much crap to keep track of. Also, this game, like most TCGs has great artwork. That's one of the major selling points to getting into TCGs. The artwork conveys flavor and theme to the game being played. And this game blocks it out by putting many ugly counters on the cards. Not to mention it blocks out important information, and makes cards harder to move around when control changes. And the counters are just not that easy to keep track of (9 counters on a card sure looks a lot like 10...).

Would it help to have some other counting devices? Something like a wheel that goes up to 30 for pool, and flat rulers between 0 and 11 for vampires. Card design could even take the size of the ruler into account.

Counters might remain the best way to track swarm decks.