exclamation-circle A SAD TIME FOR VTES PLAYERS IN BRAZIL

31 May 2018 11:41 - 31 May 2018 11:42 #87779 by Malachy
Two things came to my mind reading this thread.

Firstly, are you guys (Brazilian players) being mislead? Being a Prince or an NC, or holding any title in VEKN does not directy represent power over others who are playing the game. It's responsibility, and extra-work TOWARDS the community. Without taking any sides in this feud (I haven't heard anything about what Desso has to say, until then I'll remain independent), I must say if any of this is true, Desso will probably face repercussions for his deeds and abuse of power, but this demagoguery needs to stop. The VEKN, and we (its titled members, as Prince and NC) are for the community, not the other way around... It probably derives (as several of you said) from lots of poeple not speaking English so they cannot come here and ask for opinions or see how things are handled differently elsewhere, but still, those of you who can please try to spread the word, and inform your local playerbase of the happenings here.

Secondly, and it might sound a bit harsh, if Desso is indeed such an atrocious person, to hack other's facebook, banning and harrassing others, forging tournament reports, alienating playgroups from the network, how comes nobody has ever confronted him about this?

NC of Hungary

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Last edit: 31 May 2018 11:42 by Malachy.
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31 May 2018 12:18 #87781 by Sydnelson

Malachy wrote: Two things came to my mind reading this thread.

Firstly, are you guys (Brazilian players) being mislead? Being a Prince or an NC, or holding any title in VEKN does not directy represent power over others who are playing the game. It's responsibility, and extra-work TOWARDS the community. Without taking any sides in this feud (I haven't heard anything about what Desso has to say, until then I'll remain independent), I must say if any of this is true, Desso will probably face repercussions for his deeds and abuse of power, but this demagoguery needs to stop. The VEKN, and we (its titled members, as Prince and NC) are for the community, not the other way around... It probably derives (as several of you said) from lots of poeple not speaking English so they cannot come here and ask for opinions or see how things are handled differently elsewhere, but still, those of you who can please try to spread the word, and inform your local playerbase of the happenings here.

Secondly, and it might sound a bit harsh, if Desso is indeed such an atrocious person, to hack other's facebook, banning and harrassing others, forging tournament reports, alienating playgroups from the network, how comes nobody has ever confronted him about this?


As you can see some testimonials many players and princes try confront him, but he use a lot of maneuver to protect himself, also use his friendship with former National Coordinator.

In addition, VTES should be something for fun, when people start getting annoyed most of the time they prefer to move away from being argumentative about something so silly compared to the problems and responsibilities of everyday life.

Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson
LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer


:adv: :camarilla: :vent: :obf: :pro: :tha: :DOM: :PRE: :cap8:
Prince of Rio de Janeiro

Powerbase Rio de Janeiro
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31 May 2018 12:19 #87782 by Sambomb

Malachy wrote: Secondly, and it might sound a bit harsh, if Desso is indeed such an atrocious person, to hack other's facebook, banning and harrassing others, forging tournament reports, alienating playgroups from the network, how comes nobody has ever confronted him about this?

We did several times at national groups, national level... he was a very close friend of the former NC and pretty close of the actual too, Desso’s wife tryed the NC spot in the last election and besides the majority chosing another one, the actual NC Márcio Pinheiro gave her a spot as “Vice national coordenator”, only after the South American Championship this year that it looks like they split after Desso and Marcio started to diverge in some points...

As you can see on this thread if you have the patience to read 10 pages, some of us already complained about him before, but with no repercussion.

And about his point of view, he is an IC member, they are expected to be regulars on vekn forum, his wife showed up here, so, even if he isn’t regular on the forum, she certainly told him about what are happening. Besides that, still not a word from him.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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31 May 2018 13:31 #87785 by TwoRazorReign

Ankha wrote: Not too fast. There is clearly a communication issue with the Brazilian players: many of them don't speak English and therefore don't come on the international forum.


As a complete outsider to this situation, I agree with Ankha. There are two sides to every story. It seems like only one side is being told in this thread. And, from some of the posts in this thread, I'm not 100% sure this side is completely objective about the situation. I'm not saying anything stated in this thread is wrong or false, it's just that it's one side of the story.

Sydnelson wrote: [As you can see some testimonials many players and princes try confront him, but he use a lot of maneuver to protect himself, also use his friendship with former National Coordinator.


Why not confront the National Coordinator then? It seems like this is the crux of the problem. Why have I read no outrage about this person?

In addition, VTES should be something for fun, when people start getting annoyed most of the time they prefer to move away from being argumentative about something so silly compared to the problems and responsibilities of everyday life.


So, what you are saying here does not jibe with what's being stated in this thread. People are acting like grave injustices were meted out by the accused person. These things can't be regarded as "silly" one day, and then be dire and serious the next. This makes me wonder if this whole situation is just silly. I mean, VTES is a game played for fun. If somebody is ruining that fun, why not confront that person and whoever is enabling them, not passively in an internet forum but actively in person? If everyone giving testimonials here were to do this, would that not solve the situation? You're not dealing with a despot who has layers of political protection from the masses. We are talking about a person who volunteers their time to organize events for a stupid card game. Go talk to them and tell them their acts are not appreciated.

I know this is harsh, but I'm really not sure what everybody in this thread expects the people volunteering their time to run this organization to do. "Fire" the accused person, who again is a volunteer? Set up a kangaroo court and strip them of their position? This takes time and effort. How about we let the volunteers at VEKN focus on getting the game back in print and in a good place. You all go handle this situation more actively.
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31 May 2018 14:34 - 31 May 2018 17:24 #87786 by KzArashi

TwoRazorReign wrote: ...I know this is harsh, but I'm really not sure what everybody in this thread expects the people volunteering their time to run this organization to do.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
― Edmund Burke

Talking in my name only: I'm become really tired of no one making nothing or don't taking any position, or never taking a stand. And when some people came and asked if I could Help, if I could make the outside world know what happens... You know? What can I really lose here? If no one listen, if nothing change... I still get my peace of mind that I have done the right thing.

After all, that other people found courage to come here speak too. And I say: No matter if nothing happens. Because some good people have done at last one thing, to speak against the evil...

Thanks to everyone who spend your time to listen. Thank you so much.

Priest of Rio de Janeiro
:sabbat: !malk! :cel: :obt: :AUS: :OBF: :DEM: :cap7:

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Last edit: 31 May 2018 17:24 by KzArashi.

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31 May 2018 17:03 - 31 May 2018 17:05 #87791 by elotar
I think there is some national cultural ... (not sure about the word) ... specificity in the works, which Brazilian guys cant communicate because it's natural for them and Europeans cant understand because for them it's totally unnatural. I think i'm getting it, because in Russia it's also present in some ugly form.

Maybe I'm mistaken, so it's just a guess, but it may be helpful.

So in Russia there is, like, habit, to view any organization as a hierarchical structure, with bosses who should command the "masses". And anybody who are at the top are perceived as a boss who should be obeyed no matter, how he get there. So even if there are some democratic process like elections involved, it not means that thoughts of the people are asked - it just some game, which may (or actually should) be fixed so the "winner" can boss everybody freely again.

All this stuff I heard about "IC position", "alliance with NC", bulling princes with some bushtit about their responsibilities ets looks very like how it happens here. And petitions to "bigger boss" (VEKN) is kind of a part of the standard modus operandi.

Malachi is wondering, why nobody confronted Desso on behavior, if they found it unacceptable. The answer is that "boss is right because he is the boss" is kind of a rule, so confronting him is also unacceptable behavior no matter what. But if bigger bosses rule, that it's really unacceptable behavior, then...

I do not know what to do in this situation if it's really is the case, such mindset is indoctrinated from childhood, you can't change it with any appeals to reason or logic.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 31 May 2018 17:05 by elotar.
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