file top ten worst....

02 Jun 2018 08:31 - 02 Jun 2018 08:32 #87841 by mathusalem
top ten worst.... was created by mathusalem
Hello fellow methuselahs,

I am still fairly new to the game, as you can see with my avatar, I'm much more used to play MTG. And it's still hard for me to assess the power level of Vtes cards. To give you an example I had always been doubtful about the might of Golconda, until I finally tried it last year, and I was amazed at how well it worked.

however people always talk about powerful cards, so even when you don't try them it's fairly easy to know that a card is powerful, but how about bad cards ? what cards should I NOT consider to play ? what cards are a total waste of cardboard and space ?

So I, thought I would ask you people of experience to play a little game and name what, in your opinion are the top ten worst Library cards (and why) and the top ten worst vamps.
that woud be of help
Thank you

:tore:
Last edit: 02 Jun 2018 08:32 by mathusalem.

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02 Jun 2018 10:43 #87842 by cordovader
Replied by cordovader on topic top ten worst....

mathusalem wrote: Hello fellow methuselahs,

I am still fairly new to the game, as you can see with my avatar, I'm much more used to play MTG. And it's still hard for me to assess the power level of Vtes cards. To give you an example I had always been doubtful about the might of Golconda, until I finally tried it last year, and I was amazed at how well it worked.

however people always talk about powerful cards, so even when you don't try them it's fairly easy to know that a card is powerful, but how about bad cards ? what cards should I NOT consider to play ? what cards are a total waste of cardboard and space ?

So I, thought I would ask you people of experience to play a little game and name what, in your opinion are the top ten worst Library cards (and why) and the top ten worst vamps.
that woud be of help
Thank you


There are so many bad cards in VTES that it would be impossible to make a list of the top ten worst.

Crypt :
- Appolonius
- Any cap 8+ Primogen almost
- Any big cap vamp with no bounce option that hasn't got an incredible special

Library :
I don't even know where to start, but the 4 "Hold" cards are a good start.
- Victim of habit
...

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02 Jun 2018 10:56 - 02 Jun 2018 11:02 #87844 by mathusalem
Replied by mathusalem on topic top ten worst....
the four Hold cards ? what are they ?

Actuall this topic was inspired by a series of youtube video about top ten worst cards in MTG, which has a lot more cards than Vtes.
don't be shy, just make a top ten of the cards that you feel are absolute Garbage.
but it would be cool to be more specific than just any cap 8 primogen : name those bloody idiotic underachievers ! :-)

:tore:
Last edit: 02 Jun 2018 11:02 by mathusalem.

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02 Jun 2018 13:15 #87848 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic top ten worst....
Chiram's Hold, Cold Amber's Hold, Elder Michaelis' Hold, Regarhagan's Hold.

I didn't even know about these cards but wow are they useless. They cost you blood or pool, but you use them to return a card from the opponent's ash heap (discard pile) to their hand, and that card costs more to play. And your opponent can jump through some hoops to burn (discard from play) the Hold, but why bother? It costs the player playing the Hold more resources than it costs the opponent, including a deck slot. IDK what the point of these cards was suppose to be...

In no particular order:

Dirty Little Secrets lets you mill the opponent equal to the amount you bleed them for but that's of dubious value. The Nosferatu have limited ability to check the top cards of their prey's library - so you could snipe key cards, but that's a lot of effort - and you're more likely and better off just trying to bleed them to death, as milling is not a real win condition in VTES.

The different gangs in VTES: The Knights, The Bruisers, The Slashers, are all pretty useless. They can't bleed, and have limited ability to intercept, maneuver, dodge, strike, and press, because they don't have any disciplines meaning you would have to rely on very weak and limiting discipline-less cards to give them those effects. Basically, getting them to work is too much effort and too costly - you may as well just play actual vampires.

Body of Sun, similar to Body Flare and Mythic Form, is very expensive and it is too easy to miss the opponent. Also, there are more reliable, easier, and cheaper ways of dealing aggravated damage or dealing more damage.

Letter From Vienna is specifically to hose the Tremere. Color hosers work in Magic because there are only 5 colors, but playing a hoser for 1 of 22 clans of vampires is probably a bad idea. It was a cool idea and card when there were originally 7 clans but now... not so much.

Most of the melee weapons but especially: Bastard Sword, Meat Cleaver, & Brass Knuckles, which are all functional reprints. They all cost 1 pool and give a permanent +1 damage on your strikes, which would be OK except that the exchange rate for guns is much more efficient and lets your vampire be safe. With melee weapons, you're almost always going to be hit back and they don't work at long range. With several guns like the Saturday Night Special, .44 Magnum, Beretta 9mm, & Desert Eagle, the cost to put into play is comparable, they work at long and close range, they do equal or more damage than their melee counterparts, and in some cases give you an optional maneuver. Granted, most Potence :POT: cards will make your melee weapons hit harder, but Celerity Guns is an old archetype while Potence Swords isn't... It is very strange that in the RPG melee weapons were generally more effective than guns when fighting vampires, but VTES has this reversed...

That's all that come to mind right now. I'm sure I'll think of more later.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
The following user(s) said Thank You: mathusalem

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02 Jun 2018 13:42 #87849 by mathusalem
Replied by mathusalem on topic top ten worst....
Ow ! I just checked those hold cards : yep ! they seem pretty complex and bad !
Lives by proxy : thanks for your contribution : that post is very helpful because Dirty little secrets dis look appealing to me, as did Letter from Vienna, but your exlanation makes it clear to me why they are bad. :-)

:tore:

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02 Jun 2018 14:19 - 02 Jun 2018 14:30 #87850 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic top ten worst....
Roughly 6% of all library cards are either banned or serve no truly applicable purpose, be it too niche to ever matter (glass Walker pact, eyes of the dead, becoming of ennoia) or do something strictly worse than another card (there are many blood coating cards in celerity that do nothing pursuit, flash, or blur can't do better, brick laying isn't as good as Arson, New Management, or Unnatural Disaster, all of which also remove a location from another player)
There are things that people still play that are straight forward worse cards than others (redirection is strictly worse than deflection, carrion coffin is not as good as homonuclous, but used some times in unison with it, ) but those aren't the stuff of wallpaper like the previous groups.

Worth noting: some cards are terrible but carry hefty notoriety, arguably betting you style points if you can use them in a deck and function at ousting. Mythic Form is this. You pay way too much to essentially turn into a dragon, then gain abilities that don't cohesively do much , like shooting agg and preventing non agg damage. But, it's hard to come by due to rarity distribution in the first 2 sets after base sets being wacky. I for example was (I guess still am...) after 1 copy to run in Madness Rachel Brandywine, a deck that blocks and then ends combat and untaps, so obviously playing mythic form on someone expecting earth meld is funny, if impractical.

Crypt cards:
If it's an 8cap+, and is missing multiact/bounce/special abilities that rock, its probably terrible. Sometimes even with one of these itll suck, Augustus Giovanni, Harrod, Josef VanBuren are arguably the worst 11 caps. Apolonious base version is notorious for looking cool and sucking. Apolonious ADV is deliberately kickass. Several early (jyhad/vtes/AH/FN) vamps weren't costed appropriately for what they had. One was an 11 cap, and she is UNDER costed for what she is. Her name is Arika. Arguably the best brown backed card in the game. (At least shes brought up as most broken)
Last year I grave robbed her after a spirit marionette with daring the dawn for an oust. Best oust I made all year....
Last edit: 02 Jun 2018 14:30 by ReverendRevolver.

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