file Poll: staple cards

05 Oct 2018 14:38 #90988 by self biased
What do you consider a staple card for V:tes? I'm looking for a list of about 60 cards in total. Asking because "Reasons."

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05 Oct 2018 14:53 - 06 Oct 2018 14:04 #90990 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Poll: staple cards

What do you consider a staple card for V:tes? I'm looking for a list of about 60 cards in total. Asking because "Reasons."


Staple for what?

If for starters of core printing, then we remove anything to do with antitribbu clans except crypt cards, and I would go so far as to say no oddball disciplines but :pro: :dem: :vic: :obt: and incredibly limited or no representation of :chi: :nec: :ser: :qui: .

:aus:
Telepathic Misdirection
Eyes of argus
Eagles sight
*nose of the hound*
:ani:
Deep song
Crows
Sense the savage way
Cats guidance
Army of rats
Aid from bats
Raven spy
(Almost: pack alpha, DotB)
:cel:
Psyche
Pursuit
Blur
Resist earths grasp
Sideslip
Flash
*diversion, instantaneous transformation, forced march*
(Almost zephyr, not enough testing)
:dem:
Kindred spirits
Confusion
Eyes of chaos
Touch of clarity
Blessings of chaos
Coma
Patterns in chaos
Deny
*call, madman quill, random patterns*
(Almost shattered mirror, restructure)
:dom:
Govern
Conditioning
Deflection
Mind rape
Bonding
Seduction
(Almost obedience, command of the beast, murmur false will)
:for:
Freak drive
Rolling with the punches
Armor of vitality
One of superior mettle or skin of steel
Hidden strength
Indomitability
Unflinching persistence
Daring the dawn
*penitent resilience, renewed vigorlessoms in the steel*
(Almost undying tenacity, skin night, kiss of ra)
:obf:
Lost in crowds
Spying mission
Old friends
Swallowed by the night
Faceless night
Hide the mind
No trace
Disguised weapon
(Almost elder impersonation, psychic veil, cloak, veil, conceal, forgotten labarynth)
:pot:
Signpost
Immortal grapple
Slam
Disarm
Sewer lid
Preturnatural strength or heroic might
(Almost: well aimed car/gate/stunt cycle, decapitate, horseshoes)
:pre:
Voter cap
Majesty
Enchant kindred
Awe
Perfect paragon
BO
Force of personality
Any of the 1 blood 3 bleeds
Entrancement
Aire of Elation
(Almost heart of city, intimidation, cat fear, summoning)
:pro:
Earth meld
Form of mist
Claws of dead
Homonuclous
Earth control
Flesh marble
Eyes of beast
*beast meld, bear skin*
(Almost rapid change)
:tha:
Mots
Ergo
Burst
Mirror walk
Theft
Apportation
Rutors hand
Soul brn/blood rage
Non discipline
:reaction:
On the q
DT
Second trad
FAorWWEF
:retainer:
Js Simmons
Mr Winthrop
:ally:
Carlton
Ossian
Mylan
:action:
Abbot
Aranthebes
Bums rush
Field training
Under siege
Computer hacking
(Cam seg?)
:modifier:
Change of target
Cog
Monkey wrench
(Red question?)
:political:
Parity shift
KRC
con boon
Banishment
Rev. Council(if fee stakes are included)
Neonate breach/snipe hunt
The one a game fatty reward cards
Autarkis persecution
(Maybe other stuff, by meta, but but weenies are foils to vote decks that can be answered easily, and the details of staples aren't as defined as I'd need to include/exclude more)
:combat:
Taste
Wws
Trap
Target vitals
Amaranth
Concealed weapon
(Pulled fangs?)
:equipment:
Bowl
Bow
Heart of cheating
Kevlar vest
Sport bike
Flamethrower
Sniper rifle
44
Any 1 +1 strength melee weapon
Talbot chainsaw
Any 2 unique melee weapons (baton, j's axe, etc)
:event:
(Bitter and sweet story)
Dragonbound
Narrow minds
Scourge of enochians
Unmasking
Unveiling
(I feel like becoming of Ennoia needs constantly printed until I see it in play at a continental championship. But I'm not listing it.)
:pool: trifles
Villein
Vessel
Wash
Wider view
(Maybe coven and 2 wrongs)
:pool: masters OOT
Archon investigation
DI/DI2
Sudden
Rotschreck
:pool: master location
Barrens
Rack
PB MONTY
PB LA
Hungry coyote
Any 2 goodish media locations
Dummy corp
Elder library
Papillon
Monestary
(Club illusion, parthenon, heidelberg)
:pool: master
Blood doll
Smiling jack
Pentex subversion
Perfectionist
Zillahs valley
Jake Washington
(Charisma?)
Anarch revolt
(Tablets?)
Fame
Tension
Giants blood
Minion tap
Golconda
Haven uncovered
Legendary vampire




There. Unless you're more narrow, I cant br more narrow. I omitted clan cards, and anything but :dem: :pro: :tha: as mono clan disciplines.
These cards go in many decks, and while other cards aren't listed that are needed for those decks (garou, satyrs, war ghouls all use Charisma.) Just the non specialized part is listed. While Deagle and SnS are used, rifle and 44 are used in broader wall and rush decks, so are included. Tablets is used in more than liquidation, so liquidation isn't listed. Parthenon and Heidelberg are narrower than other listed cards in what decks use them, but loads of not all MMPA decks use parthenon, so its sort of there.
I'd argue that if all these cards averaged 7cents USD each (or if years of junk commens were some of these instead) most players could keep on average 30% to 60% more decks built at any given time. Currently sleeves (let's say dragon sheilds) run like 12cents a sleeve. That plus print cost to sleeve a proxy stop let's say zip line or cadet, combined with the added effort of cutting the proxy are at least a slight deterrent. The current production cost is higher now, but secondary market cost for USA, AUS, and Europe ebay stores is directly influenced by what BC prints.

The trick to more players having more viable decks at a time lies not in EVERY staple being printed, but in the right ones in the right amounts.
With any given players collection, 8 copies of let's say Govern, deflection, freak drive, eyes of argus, deep song and 4 copies Abbot, Mots, Target Vitals, daring the dawn, Cog, field training, smiling jack, etc could mean they get another 1to3 decks, depending on collection composition.
I'm not sure how much new content to reprint ratio BC will look at for the cam starter stuff, but it will be crucial in how attached to the game potential new players become. Within 2 months of playing the game, I had 2 stealthbleed decks, one junky concept deck, and my second trad guns deck. I find tuned all of them gradually, but having the game in print, staples available in precons and possibly boosters, and above all else having a thriving playgroups support were key. Shaping what new players get is vital.

Now, SelfBiased, you want 60, give me 2-3 clans. What are you up to?
Last edit: 06 Oct 2018 14:04 by ReverendRevolver.

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05 Oct 2018 16:43 #90993 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic Poll: staple cards
I'm puzzled by the question. You are asking what we consider a staple card to be, not which cards are staples... Do you want to know my personal criteria for what a cards needs to be a staple, or do you just want a list of cards I think meet that criteria? :P

Since ReverendRevolver is making a big list, I want to talk about criteria.

It is not enough for a card to be widely played. It has to capture some core idea of "vampires" in it's name and function. It has to have theme pushed to the max, for me. However, I consider the core ideas of "vampires" and the theme(s) of "vampire(s)" being transcendent from Vampire: The Masquerade. VTM, at it's best, touches on the ideas and themes of vampires, which go way back to the roots of the myths all the way up to the modern era. And there has been enough vampire media since WW's era that I think VTM could borrow from and use. What I think VTM adds most to the collective cultural understanding of vampires is the idea of politics and conspiracies and councils of inner circles. I don't necessarily agree with the way VTM has done this, but I like the political intrigue aspect.

Ergo, any discussion of staple cards should include political cards*:

Parity Shift
Kine Resources Contested
Delaying Tactics
Second Tradition: Domain
Pulling Strings
Praetorian Backer
Private Audience
Fame
Banishment
Legendary Vampire
Dramatic Upheaval
Cryptic Rider
Reins of Power
Ancient Influence
Political Flux
Ventrue Headquarters
Carthage Remembered
Elder Kindred Network

*I would tweak a few of these cards if I had the power to.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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05 Oct 2018 21:32 - 05 Oct 2018 21:33 #90997 by Snodig
Replied by Snodig on topic Poll: staple cards
Some suggestions (not mentioned above) in no particular order:
Blood Doll/Vessel
Bum's Rush/Harass
Wash/SR
Taste of Vitae
Change of Target
Secure Haven
Weighted Walking Stick
Rack
Villein/Minion Tap
Archon Investigation
Concealed Weapon
.44 Magnum
Aura Reading
Bowl of Convergence
Dreams of the Sphinx
Spirit's Touch
Powerbase: Montreal
Last edit: 05 Oct 2018 21:33 by Snodig. Reason: Someone had it covered

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06 Oct 2018 14:13 #91003 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Poll: staple cards
Its tricky to define staples and not just list good cards, I omitted thing I feel I use alot but aren't true staples (atonement, metro underground, others) but 60 feels too narrow unless you are confining to a small sample, let's say torrie ventrue brujah. That makes :aus: :dom: :pot: :for: restricted from 2 groups and allow tighter focus.

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06 Oct 2018 17:28 #91006 by self biased
Replied by self biased on topic Poll: staple cards
I'm trying to cobble together a proxy supplement for new players.

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