If the merging the clans is too much work...

LivesByProxy wrote:

Also, a lot of the "background" for WW was written by a bunch of different writers, many of whom no longer work for WW. I see no reason why BC has to wait for Paradox & WW to start churning out "lore" when the medium they're working with (cards) lets players create stories themselves. They can take liberties with the source material to allow players to create interesting fun decks and scenarios and game-states.

Not true.
BCP need the approval of WW for every cards/products they will released, and from what I know they ask that VtES stay as close as possible to the new background of Vampire V5.

A "Going Cama/Going Sabbat" cardless action make no sense, even more with V5.
It's easy to become anarch, but the become a member of the Camarilla or the Sabbat is way more complicated.

Ezra wrote:

A "Going Cama/Going Sabbat" cardless action make no sense, even more with V5.
It's easy to become anarch, but the become a member of the Camarilla or the Sabbat is way more complicated.

Complicated maybe, but it can be done, and has been done in the lore. The question is only whether we want to dedicate a card to it. VTES already has interactions that conflict with the lore quite a bit. Like having camarilla black hand vampires...

Bloodartist wrote:

Ezra wrote:

A "Going Cama/Going Sabbat" cardless action make no sense, even more with V5.
It's easy to become anarch, but the become a member of the Camarilla or the Sabbat is way more complicated.

Complicated maybe, but it can be done, and has been done in the lore. The question is only whether we want to dedicate a card to it. VTES already has interactions that conflict with the lore quite a bit. Like having camarilla black hand vampires...

Various factions of the hand have infiltrated all sects, especially the Camarilla. The Tal'Mahe'Ra predates the hell outta either modern sect, as do other parts, such as the Lost Tribe.

Lore conflicts exist, especially with several crypt cards, but since we already have cards that make you cam or Sabbat, I'd say we don't currently have a need........

@Reverend: Yes, goal is to build on themes and, generally, have useful cards (may require slightly increase power level of effects.)

@BloodArtist: The point is to make the action of going Cam or Sabbat a built-in cardless action like going Anarch. The cards that let us change between those sects aren't worth including IMO. However if I have a 90% Sabbat crypt with one Cam vamp, maybe that Cammie taking the action to join Sabbat to benefit from your Sabbat tech would be worthwhile.

@Ezra: Just like having an Anarch let's you go Anarch easier, having Cam or Sabbat vamps would make it easier to join those sects. And there's nothing lore-wise that i know of preventing a vamp of one sect from seeking out the other to join.

LivesByProxy wrote:

@BloodArtist: The point is to make the action of going Cam or Sabbat a built-in cardless action like going Anarch. The cards that let us change between those sects aren't worth including IMO. However if I have a 90% Sabbat crypt with one Cam vamp, maybe that Cammie taking the action to join Sabbat to benefit from your Sabbat tech would be worthwhile.

You are right. I think the action to change sect (camarilla, sabbat, anarch, independent) should be a cardless action that costs 2 blood unless you control a ready vampire of said sect in which case it would cost 1 blood. If vampire has a title, it cannot change sect.

In other words, expand the cardless action of going anarch into Camarilla, Sabbat and independent also. I am not including Laibon, that feels somehow wrong. What do you think? Since wasting an action to do this is not trivial, there is still some use for the old trifles that change sect.

ps. I have ran "into the fire" in my LaSombra deck, in order to turn the very useful vampire Badr, Shadow of Granada into sabbat so she could benefit from sabbat cards like hungry coyote, under siege, etc. I admit that the sect-changing trifles are not really playable.

BloodArtist wrote:

In other words, expand the cardless action of going anarch into Camarilla, Sabbat and independent also. I am not including Laibon, that feels somehow wrong. What do you think?

I wouldn't and didn't include Laibon either because even though they are ostensibly a sect, the Liabon has a specific racial and geographic component (that being Africans, Africa). All the other sects are either secular or political ideologies, irrespective of race or geography. Even the Sabbat, despite the veneer of religiosity, does not care whether you actually believe in the Caine myths - much less about your sex, race, nationality, clan, etc. - so long as you serve the Sabbat and make life hell for the Camarilla.

I do find it somewhat ironic that the attempt to be inclusive by White Wolf resulted in the creation of a sect that is, by its nature, exclusive.