If the merging the clans is too much work...

thelonius wrote:

It's a pity my charizard can't learn earthquake....

Seriously, Brunhilde to join the Sabbat? You know that this game have something called background?


Would you ask FFG to print a Lannister Arya Stark? Pretty the same.

Ummm, Charizard learns 'Quake via tm

www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/006.shtml

But yea, theres very little point in adding ways to go cam or Sabbat. Out of the frying pan/In to the fire aren't exactly auto includes for most decks. I agree in base futility, and that printed versions should adhere to basic fluff.

Even if Charizard doesn't always:
www.serebii.net/card/excrystalguardians/004.shtml

My hope was that if going Cam or Sabbat was as easy as going Anarch, it might facilitate new decks and strategies.

I was also hoping for more Cam and Sabbat tech. It seems like very few cards really care about those sects, especially the Camarilla. Others just seem bad.

Cam cards favor those in power, but I'll admit theres nothing useful about Primogen. So Second trad and parity shift are the strongest cam stuff, and you of course get judgment cam seg, Alastor, etc.
Sabbat has some of this, but often favors the midcaps supported by those in power. Hungry coyote, abbot, under siege, fire dance, all can be used by anyone. Under siege required a title to play, but while sect can use.
Anarchs nominally go for everyone being able to use everything.

Theres plenty of design space left, but what do you feel needs to be added that doesn't dilute theme for cam?

@ReverendRevolver: Those are the cards I had in mind as the best Cam and Sabbat tech. I also really like Eternal Vigilance, Tattoo Signal, and Seraph's Second, and even Mustajib (much better than Blooding IMO.)

I don't want to dilute any sect's theme, but the opposite: I want to strengthen the themes of each sect. What first needs to be done is to determine what themes and design space belongs to which sect. This is how I would break it down: (The 'o' represents things that already appear, the + represents themes I would emphasize.

Camarilla:
o) Titles. The Cam have cards asking for Primogen, Princes, Justicars, and Inner Circle Members.
o) Political Actions. The Cam, moreso that the Sabbat, legislate control.
o) The Traditions. The Masquerade must be upheld!
o) Elders. The Cam put emphasis on the power of elders. They should care about Age / Capacity.
o) Territory. The Cam want cards that care about City Titles, Power Bases, and Hunting Grounds.
o) Exclusive Membership. Being Camarilla should come with certain perks. Maybe emphasize luxury vehicles?

Sabbat:
o) Blood Rites. The Sabbat have a bunch of cards that move blood around and require them to burn blood for the effect.
o) Noddism / Piety. Ministry is a good card, but what does Noddism / Piety look like in VTES? Maybe they benefit from killing 10 and 11 caps? Maybe they have cards that require 'sacrifice' for strong effects.
o) Hunting. The Sabbat embrace their beast, ergo, they could and should have strong hunt effects and modifiers. They already have a bit of this with cards like Hungry Coyote and Follow The Blood.
o) Diablerie. The Sabbat are notorious diablerists, but despite this fact, there is no card I could find that requires or benefits Sabbat specifically performing diablerie. The closest is Ebony Fox Hunt, but is that a strong useful card?
o) Contracts & Combat. The Sabbat are killers. Elysium is for the Cammies. The Sabbat should benefit from completing contracts and getting into fights.
o) Slaves. The Sabbat want to rule and dominate humanity. This is partially referenced by cards like Shock Troops, but also the Slave keyword. The Sabbat will enslave weaker vampires for fun. I would play up this keyword, letting it appear occasionally in antitribu clans besides just !Tremere, similar to Toy being !Malk Slave.

Anarchs:
o) Younger Vampires. The Anarchs are 1-5 caps, with a few older vamps joining their ranks.
o) Inferior Disciplines. The Anarchs are generally young and undisciplined. They go for the jack-of-all-trades approach.
o) Flexibility. The Anarchs arguably have the most flexible cards - they can get so many different effects on one card, and some cards even allow them to use more than one effect!
o) Mortal Allies. The Anarchs rile up the Slashers, Knights, Bruisers, and Young Bloods against the establishment.
o) Antagonistic. The Anarchs should get effects specifically vs Sabbat AND vs Camarilla.
o) Guns & Knives. The Anarchs make up for their lack of discipline via kine weapons.

Note: I'm not saying these things have to be exclusive to these sects. But each sect should have their specialties and strengths.

So what about some card ideas? Here are a few for Cam and Sabbat:

Camarilla.

Sway
Requires a ready Primogen.
OR OR
+2 stealth Action.
Choose one (1) --
During the next referendum called this turn, each ready Primogen casts votes and ballots as this acting vampire's controller wishes; or, put 2 blood from the blood bank on a Primogen in your uncontrolled region; or, put X blood from the blood bank on a Prince in your uncontrolled region. X is the number of Primogen you control.

Power Behind The Throne
Requires a Primogen.
+3 stealth action. Unique.
Attach this card to the acting vampire and choose another vampire. Whenever the chosen vampire calls a referendum and it passes, put a counter on this card. Attached vampire has +X votes, where X is the number of counters on this card.

An Iron Grip
Political Action.
Requires a Prince or a Camarilla vampire with 9 or more capacity.
If the referendum has more votes “for”, each Methuselah burns 1 pool for each Power Base location their predator controls and each City title amongst vampires their predator controls. If the referendum has more votes “against”, each Methuselah gains 1 pool for each Power Base location they control, and each City title amongst vampires they control. If the votes “for” and “against” are tied, you may return this Political Action to your hand (discard down afterwards.)

Sabbat

On The Prowl
Hunt (+1) at +1 stealth. If this action is successful, unlock this vampire.
As above, but at +2 stealth instead. If this vampire is Sabbat and the action is successful, you get the Edge.

Stigmata
Action Modifier
Requires a Black Hand vampire.
Put this card on this vampire. This vampire gets -1 capacity (burn excess blood.) Vampires attempting to block this vampire -1 intercept. Infernal vampires and Demon minions opposing this vampire in combat cannot use maneuvers to move to close range. A vampire can only have one Stigmata.

Sin Eater
+1 stealth action.
Requires a Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal, or Seraph.
Put this card on this vampire. Diablerize a Sabbat vampire in torpor. You may search your collection for a Master: Discipline card for each discipline that vampire possessed and put them on this acting vampire. This vampire gains blood equal to the number of disciplines that vampire possessed. A vampire can only have one Sin Eater.

LivesByProxy wrote:

So

Sin Eater
+1 stealth action.
Requires a Bishop, Archbishop, Cardinal, or Seraph.
Put this card on this vampire. Diablerize a Sabbat vampire in torpor. You may search your collection for a Master: Discipline card for each discipline that vampire possessed and put them on this acting vampire. This vampire gains blood equal to the number of disciplines that vampire possessed. A vampire can only have one Sin Eater.

This contains something worth mentioning because I've thought about it for AGES.
The default diablery action requiring you to dig up a skill card outta your deck is so seldom used I cant honestly recall using it in a deck that wasn't running Ariadne and skill cards. Like ever. Once I tried it with Jackie, who woulda got but she burned.
I'd be willing to say it fits better thematically to change the default diablery rule to one master:discipline card from outside the game.

On to your card.....

First line makes no sense. It should have the diablerize a..... and out this card o the acting vampire.
Thematically and mechanically, I dont like the huge amount of blood and capacity increase here. Wording means I can have Neighbor John govern bleed daring the dawn, condition it, then Frondator eats my own vamp, who has one blood, and gains any 3 disciplines, and 4 blood. Louis F instead of neighbor john is even more.
Anyway, getting "Choose any discipline(s)that vampire possessed at superior and attach a Master:Discipline for that discipline to this vampire from outside the game."
Would make it more fluff useful.

Votes need a way to be effective for non users, that is what I would say needs explored for any sect.

I think your theme stuff is mostly relevant. I'd say Sabbat need better ways than some of what's printed to represent thier rituals, and cam just need a wider palette of options, especially for Primogen and non titled old vamps.
Anarchs contain elders as well as fresh licks. Thematically, all you said is true, but due to basic mechanics of vtes, its beneficial to not exclude old fatty anarchs. Tyler is quite the "inspiring" anarch in V5.
Flexibility, mortals, mortal weapons.... so appropriate. Also vehicles, espionage, etc. Many modern anarchs were Sabbat less than 20 years ago. Obviously some were cam and got sick of it, but basically, you have a population who should be able to get one up on groups they were once part of. So Cam is Age, power, title, cities. Sabbat is power to the middle management, brutality, mysticism, but narrow sorts, and inhumanity. Anarch is adaprability, using tools and tactics not typical of the other 2. It's nice that most of these are already kind of established, but I feel we can build upon them.